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 Posted: Mon Jun 2nd, 2014 07:14 pm
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Joe Kelley

Joined: Mon Nov 21st, 2005
Location: California USA
Posts: 6398
Update 05-08-2014


I stopped that Educational Video at the point when the Rancher spoke the term Equal Footing. I stopped to link this:


That is not wild goose chase stuff sending defenders of our Liberty down a rabbit hole. That is common sense, common law, natural law, God's Law stuff. From the concept of authority NOT being a Tyrant, to the concept of authority being God's Law or Natural Law, from true authority, real authority, NOT Tyranny, in so many words, common sense authority, from that are claims of ownership of land, claims made by various people, including regular Joes and including Tyrants. Who settles any case of conflict concerning any claim of land anywhere across this land of the free where we defend each other from Tyrants?

How do we the people communicate our common sense claims to our common law land ownership or our stewardship (we can't abuse each other with land, or with pointed sticks, or with rocks thrown by tyrants, or lies told by liars) in cases of disputes? How do we defend ourselves from false claims?

Terms like equal footing doctrine have worked, are working, and will work so long as English words carry accurate meaning in time and place, and so long as the people are not fooled by Tyrants, and their lies, when Tyrants change the meanings of words at their pleasure and at the cost of those who fail to realize the deception.
Equal Footing Doctrine and Title Abstract and Allodial Title are terms that mean specific things concerning any conflict arsing whereby a cloud is placed on a claim of title. The one who can prove a constant chain of title back to the original owner (God or Nature) wins in a common law grand jury case BEFORE it goes to a trial jury case, and if someone does not listen to reason, then 12 people are randomly selected (by lot) from the local area where the dispute occurs, and then those 12 people solve that problem. If those 12 people are stupid, those 12 people may then be criminals themselves, for failing to know Natural Law concerning claims of ownership of land, or failing to trace back authority to real authority, failing to trace back authority beyond the Tyrants, failing to avoid BEING tyrants.

Why is that idea offered to you now? That idea is offered to you now because common law grand jury POWER during the grand jury negotiation stage ASSUMES that 25 people include at least one person who knows such things as Equal Footing Doctrine, so as not to then rely on only 12 people to represent the whole country of people, as is the concept of trial by jury, which is trial by the whole country, NOT trial by tyrants.

If 25 people representing the whole country cannot offer a reasonable deal to those in conflict over a land dispute, what does the accuser and the accused think will be their chances when only 12 people are working on Justice, Honor, and Mercy in that case of that dispute over land ownership claims of authority?

Quote from the link that links the people to the information on LAND TITLES:

Quote time:
When property is held in allodium, all police powers are removed from the property. There are no building permits required and there are no property taxes (feudal duties) due. When property is held in allodium, the title is called a Land Patent.

That is the stuff of our common sense, common law, which we the people ought to know, so we the people can effectively defend each other in our common law grand juries and our common law courts and our common law trials by our common law jurists who are assembled by lot to accomplish any conflict resolution in time and place, and do so honorably, justly, and mercifully.

Man has been on land for how many years? Millions of years, and just now the idea of conflicts over claims of land ownership have to be settled by ordeal? Employees of a foreign corporation show up with guns drawn ready to shoot innocent people over a cloud on the title?

That is barbarity. If you were not watching as intently as I was watching when the barbarians tortured children for weeks on end in Waco before burning them alive, then you may not understand why so many people across this country started forming effective Militia Units. You may not see the significance of the foreign corporation employees backing down in this case. You may not see how the attack DOGS had more common sense than the foreign corporate employees who were ordering the well trained attack dogs to attack innocent people who were involved in a dispute, or cloud, on a title of land.

A Chinese based corporation hires goons to do whatever it takes to remove the cloud on the title of land that those people are interested in, and those people in that Chinese based corporation think they are protected under a false claim of limited liability (from Nature and/or God), and they care not that their employees are fond of torturing and burning alive innocent children, for fun and profit, and in this case someone, somewhere, some people defended our common Liberty, and the goons backed off, the goons had enough sense to back off, or the goons were given more orders to follow without question, so the goons backed off under moral orders instead of the goons going ahead and obeying criminal orders without question.
So I rant, rant, rant, with word based upon what I see as conflict resolution in time and place in our time in our places; because I've seen, witnessed, the methods used by the employees of the foreign corporations as they LOVE to burn babies alive for fun and profit and I do not stand for such things. So yes, I rant.

Update 05/04/2014

Update 05/07/2014 Note: I go off on what may seem like a rant, the bottom line here is that we can command our common defense with our common law so why invest so heavily in ONE BIG LIE when that truth is in our power to command?


From that link is this quote:
There are now people at the ranch who are best described as militant. These people want to force an armed confrontation. Some are with Operation Mutual Aid and the Mountain Men Militia which are not as their actions have proven Constitutional Militias. Ryan Payne of Operation Mutual Aid has released a stream of videos making accusations of Militias and Oath Keepers being cowards because they fell back and scattered out when the possibility of a drone strike was obtained through intelligence channels. It appears that Mr. Payne’s intent is to discredit other groups so he can remain in control, and that he wants a war. The Militias want a solution. Many militia members have been to war, and will fight if that time comes, but are in absolutely no hurry to speed up the process and kill other Americans if it can be stopped without violence.

The common law rancher, who was born naturally with a name, a good name, was not going to wait for the cows to come home, he went out and saved those cows from the evil bandits before those criminals could slaughter and bury the evidence, covering up their heinous crimes.

Note: Those who use the term Federal Government to be a synonym for Organized Crime as speaking double speak and most people fail to see the significance of that very destructive error.

Speaking of errors:


Failure to identify friend from foe has many possible costs paid for by those who fail.
Friends of Liberty fail to connect to friends for their common defense.
Friends of Liberty fail to identify those who destroy friends of Liberty and Liberty.
Criminals (friends of falsehood, threats against innocent people, and violence upon innocent people for fun and profit of criminals at the expense of victims) fail to connect to friends of crime for their common profits taken from victims
Criminals fail to identify those who effectively defend innocent people and Liberty

A government by the people, of the people, and for the people once was called a democratic form of government and the best of the best democratic form of government has been accurately identified as a Federation of Constitutional Republics such as the examples provided by:
a. Holland (at the time of the American Declaration of Independence)
b. Switzerland (at the time of the American Declaration and possibly today)
c. The Federation under The Articles of Confederation consisting of 13 Constitutional Republics between 1776 and 1787

The current Consolidated (Monopoly) Government in America is not even a government, it is not a Constitutional Republic, it is not a Federation, it became a crime in progress, or organized crime, or Fraud and Extortion under the color of law, or Central Banking Monopoly Power, or False Federal Government, or Nation State, or Corporation (Limited Liability), or Legal Fiction, or The Fiction, and that USURPATION occurred in 1787.

Three sources PROVE, beyond a reasonable doubt the facts on the ground in 1787:
Secret Proceedings and Debates of the Constitutional Convention
Robert Yates, Luther Martin (1787; kept secret until 1838)

Federalist Papers (The real versions not the false versions)


The False Constitution of 1787 itself

Slavery was made legal (supposedly the law of our land)

Piracy was made legal (supposedly the law of our land)

Fraud was made legal (the constitutional convention was a proven fraud)

Extortion was made legal (the actual federalists warned specifically about this "tax" power)

Money Monopoly Power was made legal (This is the actual reason for the fraudulent "Constitutional Convention"
Slavery: Three fifths clause at the start and then the 16th amendment enslaving everyone equally, plus enforcement of so called "fugitive slave laws" (color of law if any existed ever in the dark history of our kind)
Piracy: What do you think Letters of Marque and Reprisals are?
"Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons."
Again, slaves became legally slaves in 1787 disproportionately, and the so called 16th Amendment made slaves of everyone
"One party, whose object and wish it was to abolish and annihilate all State governments, and to bring forward one general government, over this extensive continent, of monarchical nature, under certain restrictions and limitations. Those who openly avowed this sentiment were, it is true, but few; yet it is equally true, Sir, that there were a considerable number, who did not openly avow it, who were by myself, and many others of the convention, considered as being in reality favorers of that sentiment; and, acting upon those principles, covertly endeavoring to carry into effect what they well knew openly and avowedly could not be accomplished. " That is a quote from those who attended the Usurpation and took notes (against dictatorial "gag" orders) during the fraudulent creation of a false government power.
Money Monopoly Power:

"But Hamilton wanted to go farther than debt assumption. He believed a funded national debt would assist in establishing public credit. By funding national debt, Hamilton envisioned the Congress setting aside a portion of tax revenues to pay each year's interest without an annual appropriation. Redemption of the principal would be left to the government's discretion. At the time Hamilton gave his Report on Public Credit, the national debt was $80 million. Though such a large figure shocked many Republicans who saw debt as a menace to be avoided, Hamilton perceived debt's benefits. "In countries in which the national debt is properly funded, and the object of established confidence," explained Hamilton, "it assumes most of the purposes of money." Federal stock would be issued in exchange for state and national debt certificates, with interest on the stock running about 4.5 percent. To Republicans the debt proposals were heresy. The farmers and planters of the South, who were predominantly Republican, owed enormous sums to British creditors and thus had firsthand knowledge of the misery wrought by debt. Debt, as Hamilton himself noted, must be paid or credit is ruined. High levels of taxation, Republicans prognosticated, would be necessary just to pay the interest on the perpetual debt. Believing that this tax burden would fall on the yeoman farmers and eventually rise to European levels, Republicans opposed Hamilton's debt program.

"To help pay the interest on the debt, Hamilton convinced the Congress to pass an excise on whiskey. In Federalist N. 12, Hamilton noted that because "[t]he genius of the people will ill brook the inquisitive and peremptory spirit of excise law," such taxes would be little used by the national government. In power, the Secretary of the Treasury soon changed his mind and the tax on the production of whiskey rankled Americans living on the frontier. Cash was scarce in the West and the Frontiersmen used whiskey as an item of barter."

Source: http://www.amazon.com/Reclaiming-American-Revolution-Kentucky-Resolution...

A working Federal Government works like this:
Second, federalism permits the states to operate as laboratories of democracy-to experiment with various policies and Programs. For example, if Tennessee wanted to provide a state-run health system for its citizens, the other 49 states could observe the effects of this venture on Tennessee's economy, the quality of care provided, and the overall cost of health care. If the plan proved to be efficacious other states might choose to emulate it, or adopt a plan taking into account any problems surfacing in Tennessee. If the plan proved to be a disastrous intervention, the other 49 could decide to leave the provision of medical care to the private sector. With national plans and programs, the national officials simply roll the dice for all 284 million people of the United States and hope they get things right.
Experimentation in policymaking also encourages a healthy competition among units of government and allows the people to vote with their feet should they find a law of policy detrimental to their interests. Using again the state-run health system as an example, if a citizen of Tennessee was unhappy with Tennessee's meddling with the provisions of health care, the citizen could move to a neighboring state. Reallocation to a state like North Carolina, with a similar culture and climate, would not be a dramatic shift and would be a viable option. Moreover, if enough citizens exercised this option, Tennessee would be pressured to abandon its foray into socialized medicine, or else lose much of its tax base. To escape a national health system, a citizen would have to emigrate to a foreign country, an option far less appealing and less likely to be exercised than moving to a neighboring state. Without competition from other units of government,the national government would have much less incentive than Tennessee would to modify the objectionable policy. Clearly, the absence of experimentation and competition hampers the creation of effective programs and makes the modification of failed national programs less likely.

A false federal government works like this:


The solution was offered by the real Federalists with the Bill of Rights during the RAT-ification process.

The Constitution itself is a fraud, but that does not discredit the utility of forming an actual Federal Government power, such as that example provided as The Articles of Confederation as those people in those 13 Constitutional Republics were able to defend against all enemies to Liberty foreign and domestic up until Shays's Rebellion and then the Usurpation of 1787.

So yes, a constitutional form of government is a voluntary government whereby the people are the government and the people create a government for their common defense against all enemies foreign and domestic, such as the constitutions in each Republic and such as The Articles of Confederation which formed that example of a
Federal Government Power.

Those who did, do, and will claim that The Articles of Confederation were a failure could have, can now, or can in the future explain precisely what they think failure means.

Hamilton and the Central Banking Criminals took over our country in 1787, if you call that success, then you ought to confess that you too are a criminal.

Do you advocate the slavery before and after The Civil War?

Do you advocate legalized piracy under the color of law?

Do you advocate criminal fraud under the color of law?

Do you advocate criminal extortion under the color of law?

Do you advocate having everything than can be stolen from people in Liberty so as to then move all that stolen power into one FUND whereby the criminals use that stolen power to make slaves of us all including the slavery that is demonstrated during
World Wars that are bought by your Masters so as to keep the Slaves enslaved?

If that is all the stuff you want, for your fun, and for your profits, then of course you will LOVE that specific fraudulent record of that crime that remains in POWER despite such things as The Declaration of Independence, The Articles of Confederation, each Constitution in each Republic, The Bill of Rights offered by the true founding fathers, our common law grand jury due process, and plain old moral conscience working to help us preserve our souls.

Good luck with that lie, how is to working for you so far?

Original post follows:
A steward of all that is good, nurturing, providing, helping, earning good life on earth had his, and his loving families sustenance stolen from him.

And then a modern standoff at a modern OK Corral ended as the good guys dodged that bullet.

It was a close call.

It was broadcast live to the whole world.

It was another Ruby Ridge, another Waco, set into play by the criminals running that show.

This time the history is written by the winners of that battle too, but this time the criminals did not get away with their crimes.

This time history is written by the good guys.

The battle is not over.

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 Posted: Mon Jun 2nd, 2014 07:15 pm
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2nd Post
Joe Kelley

Joined: Mon Nov 21st, 2005
Location: California USA
Posts: 6398
Here again is a video concerning the wrong answer to the wrong answer.
In that video there are concepts that offer extreme value and utility in our common law common defense.
Misidentifying the criminals as criminals leads to the criminals getting away with their crimes PERPETUALLY.
Accurate identification of the absolute necessity to accurately identify HOW TO accurately identify the criminals as criminals is a FUNDAMENTAL necessity. Know the facts, do NOT believe LIES. Failing to realize the effective process is an initial miss step, leading to PERPETUAL WAR among people who would otherwise be effectively defending the innocent from harm by those criminals who are never accurately identified as criminals.
The criminals took over what was once a working Federation of Constitutional Republics, and those criminals did so in 1787, and those criminals have been behind all things done at the False Federal Level since 1787, so the use of the word Federal Government, for all practical purposes, in this country, is at best wishful thinking.
I will find the time, again, in that video, whereby MISS-IDENTIFICATION occurs as a potentially fatal mistake, whereby true patriots, who could be people working effectively at our common defense, who may be arresting criminals instead of MISS-IDENTIFYING criminals, whereby the accurately identified criminals are then offered common law due process, so as to DEFEND THOSE CRIMINALS along with DEFENDING EVERYONE, instead of accurately identifying the criminals, the MISS-IDENTIFYING of the criminals will lead to further error, further compounding confusion, further webs of deception, further misplaced defensive posturing, further misplaced command of defensive, deterrence, as defensive capability of meeting aggressive violence with defensive violence, all due to the same obvious, measurable, provable, reasonable beyond a reasonable doubt, for any 25 people picked out of any number of people in a jury pool (a pool constructed for that purpose according to our common law common defense due process), or any 12 people representing the whole country, in a court of record, according to our common law, according to our common law as confirmed in the Bill of Rights (NOT the so called Constitution), so as to avoid MISS-IDENTIFYING the criminals among us, who WILL perpetually perpetrate crimes upon us, if we fail again, and again, and again, and again, to actually identify the criminals as criminals, as those criminals are NOT members of a Federal Government agency.
This video was taken down, but it is now back up, so I am going to relink this video, and I am going to find the specific words spoken at the specific time when the most basic, the most fundamental, the most dangerous error is made in time and place, where boots are potentially on the ground shooting and killing each other over ONE BASIC SHARED LIE.
Time 27:20
"Our big goal here is about the Federal Government..."
Anyone contemplating any volunteer work (with or without compensation to offset your day job income, or your capacity to make a living and stay alive at making an honest living, so you need compensation for your time as you take time-off of your normal productive schedule) in our common defense, which is our common law, which is ANYTHING that does work to actually defend the people from the criminals, including Militia duty, including Jury Duty, including anything, anywhere, anytime, where our common defense is effectively made real, WITHOUT violence, because or efforts DETER violence effectively, if anyone is interested in our common defense, and you think that video is of no importance to you, and you think that there are more productive things to do than to understand what is going on in that video, then we, you and I, are on two sides of a line YOU draw in the sand.
I do not want to step over into the line in the sand drawn by anyone who claims that our common defense can be based upon our common refusal to know the pertinent facts required to be known, and understood, concerning the absolute necessities required for our mutual defense.
I do not want to step over the line in the sand drawn by anyone who refuses to do anything productive by which ignorance can be defeated through careful, deliberate, inspection of the vital facts in any case whereby innocent people WILL be harmed by criminals unless enough people care enough to defend those people who WILL be harmed without such careful employment of time and energy (time and energy is power), careful deployment of defensive power, is in fact our path to our common defense, and it starts as people step over their line in the sand where they refuse to recognize their own ignorance, apathy, as their line they draw in their sand box.
In that line in that sand, inside that sand box, where that line goes around each one in that line, in that sand, are the people inside of their willful legal fictions.
I will not go inside that sand box.
At time 27:20 are confessions of someone trapped inside that sand box of legal fiction.
If that Oath Keeper, that defender of Liberty, can, will, set outside of that sand box of legal fiction, then those people he is calling The Federal Government become, in his eyes, and in his speech, and therefore in our eyes, and in our speech, criminals, nothing but criminals, and only exceptional criminals in the sense that their counterfeit Federal Uniforms are used by those criminals while they perpetrate the crimes they perpetrate.
Time 27:20
"Our big goal here is about the Federal Government..."
To drive this point home, if at all possible in one mind, just one more member of our jury pool, stepping firmly past the line that defines the LIE, the fiction, whereby one, please, one more member of the people, stepping outside (and never going back inside) that LIE, please, I will quote the context of the message offered by the Oath Keeper (honorable member of our common defense = misdirected by the lie):
“Keep focus, this is not about Oath Keepers, this is not about the minute men, this is not about the three percent-ers myself, Robert, this is about the Bundys, and so, everybody out there that’s been donating, continue to support the Bundys, continue to work on this, and what our big goal here is, is about, what the Federal Government…pushing themselves on American people, and…a lot of patriots out here, and all of us have to make sure we make this all work.”
What is the goal? The goal is deter. The goal is defend. The goal is to inspire the criminals to abandon their interests in perpetrating crimes upon the innocent because the effective defense, well communicated, will afford the criminals their own defense BEFORE they follow through with any crime upon any victim anywhere. The goal is to show how American people will defend American people from all enemies foreign and domestic, and that any enemy foreign or domestic who dreams of perpetrating crimes upon American people, will find their dreams to be unprofitable for them to dream, let alone perpetrate, in our country.
So...Joe...Mr. Know it All, safe in your home, writing so easily at your desk, big shot, where do you come off accusing these fine people of doing anything wrong?
The Federal Government is not a Federal Government, it is a Foreign Corporation traceable back through time and place to Money Monopoly Fraud and Extortion Criminals perpetrating the crimes of Fraud and Extortion, while hiding their crimes behind a very, very, very THIN veil of falsehood, and that veil is lifting, but in those words, obviously, the LIE continues to divide us, and we will be conquered by that lie, if we do not figure out how to defeat that LIE sooner, before it is much, much, much, too late.
The most obvious, recent, example of the type of situation occurring right now, not just at The Bundy Ranch, is the example that happened in Waco Texas in 1993.
You don't realize the CORE PROBLEM if you do not understand why the fundamental ERROR is expressed in the following words:
Time 27:20
"Our big goal here is about the Federal Government..."
The so called Federal Government is a false front, a collection of gate keepers hired to BAR the gate, with a lie, a line in the sand, a line in the sand around the sand box of Legal Fiction, whereby those who run the show will brutally murder anyone inside their sand box, who dares to blow the whistle as Sonny Bono was doing in that so called "hearing" in that so called "congress," in that time, in that place in our country.
Our common defense cannot be founded upon a LIE, if anyone claims that our common defense can be founded upon a LIE, knowingly, or unknowingly, inside their ignorance, or outside of their ignorance, it matters not, the fact is that no defense other than defense of the LIE is possible when the foundation is a LIE.
The LIE works so well, in fact, that the true, accurate, fully accountable, measure of how well a Federal government power works at effectively defending the people is LOST behind that LIE at the same time that that LIE defends the very well paid LIARS.
That is the lesson offered.
Keep calling the liars anything other than liars, and YOU give them false credit, YOU give their lies power, YOU work out of ignorance in defense of the LIE, and in defense of the LIARS, if YOU fail to realize those two very important facts enumerated below:
A Federal government existed between 1776 and 1787 for our common defense in this country, and it was proven to be effective enough to work for people who drove off the largest army of criminal invaders, and solve an internal battle occurring in Massachusetts whereby criminals who took over the Constitutional Republic of Massachusetts worked to enforce their crimes under the color law, and their victims ran like runaway slaved from that criminal State of Massachusetts, inside a Voluntary Federation, and they ran into the working Constitutional Republic of Vermont which is was also inside the same Federal Government Agency. There were no False Federal Slave Trade Enforcers hired to enforce Fugitive Slave "Laws" when our Federation was a true Federal Government.
When the criminals took over in 1787, not only did they remove our common defense with our Federal Government Power, they then set about enslaving everyone while they hid behind a false Federal Government; which then prevented anyone from working toward regaining effective control of our Federal Government.
Additional fact:
The Criminals destroyed our common law defense through our common law grand jury due process, and that is an irrefutable fact, as the destruction of our common law grand jury due process was destroyed by the lie that our government existed at a Federal Level, and no such thing was true after 1787.
What is the utility, the value, of knowing any of those reports of our common history in our country offered above?
It is not too late to return to our common law grand jury defense of our Liberty in our Constitutional Republics as part of our Federal Government Power of Defense.
The reason why it is not too late has to do with our true founders managing to document our Bill of Rights.
We the moral people, not we the criminals, but we the peaceful people, not we the violent aggressors, we the people share the founding principles found in our Bill of Rights, and that is an example of why it is not too late to realize, to make, to enforce, to judge, to try, anyone claiming that a LIE is good enough for our government work. From the moment you step outside of your line in the sand whereby you are captured into that Legal Fiction that was created in 1787, from that moment on, you are free of that LIE, and then we the people have your additional clearing of your conscience to help us in our common defense.
After 1787 there was a battle of words, and after 1787 the battle of words ended up with our Bill of Rights as our law of our land.
If you want to keep repeating words claiming claims of value and utility associated with the LIE that was formed in 1787, YOUR supposed Constitution, then know what you are claiming, please.
You are claiming that slavery is legal in YOUR country, for that LIE was hatched in YOUR Constitution. NOT YOUR BILL OF RIGHTS.
You can't seriously serve both Slave Master and our Bill of Rights, so to claim to do so, to serve two masters, is a false claim if you do not know any better, and a willful LIE if you know it is a LIE.
In that so called Constitution was also the claim made by the criminals that Piracy is legal.
There are other false claims of false authority done willfully by the liars in that so called Constitution, but that is not the point.
The point is that our Bill of Rights, and our common law grand jury due process, was offered to us by our true founders, and we can command our effective defense despite the LIES infecting the so called Constitution; whereby our Federal Government was handed over to enemies foreign and domestic; and that was done, as a matter of record, in 1787. A true common law court of record can record that fact in one of our first cases.
Any good man. Any good woman. Any member of the people, any one, can find the good in any Constitution, and anyone can find the good in our Bill of Rights at a true Federal level, or at a true Constitutional Republic level, or at a County level, or at a City level, or at the level of one case, in one common law grand jury court of record, in time and place, and that is the point at which our FOCUS can focus down into laser like POWER, to defend one, or many, victims, from one, or many criminals, even when common law due process is being used to defend one criminal from another criminal.
How can that last sentence be hammered home in words?
Our common defense is based upon our shared principles, and those principles are based upon the facts of our existence within Nature, or for those who are religious, our principles are based upon the facts of our existence within the Nature that is created, and afforded to us, by God, the common creator common to everything that is created.
Our common defense is based upon the principle that everyone who is not afforded as much defense as anyone else WILL be injured by some damn criminal because the criminal is afforded the opportunity to destroy someone BECAUSE too few of us care to step outside of that BOX OF LIES that BAR our common understanding of our common principles such as our common law due process that is afforded to everyone INCLUDING the criminals.
Our common defense includes the defense of criminals injured by criminals, despite the insistence demanded by criminals to be criminals in fact.
Our common defense works when we the people insist upon recording into our courts of records the discovery of precisely who are the criminals because we the people will not allow the criminals to perpetrate crimes upon people. We the people will not allow the criminals to perpetrate crimes upon other criminals.
So, in that, is offered enough information to afford someone locked up in the sand box of lies, locked up in the Legal Fiction of a False Federal Government POWER commanded by enemies of our Liberty, anywhere, from any foreign land, from any foreign cabal of liars, and that information ought to be sufficient for readers to realize that any Constitution, at a Federal Level, or at a State Level, is only as good as the people employing it, and one Constitution or another one won't save, or harm, anyone, unless people understand precisely what people will do under the color of false authority, or under the sound direction of true authority as they see it in time and place.
No number of people assembled in any numbers from 2 up to 8 Billion, sharing a common belief in a LIE, such as the LIE of making Slavery Legal, or making Piracy Legal, will ever be anything other than an Angry Mob, no matter how many of those people say otherwise.
No number of people assembled in any numbers from 2 up to 8 Billion, sharing a common belief in the absolute need for Truth in Governing, such as those common law grand jury procedures AIMING to proceed according to discoverable facts, can injure anyone based upon a LIE, if they merely follow the procedures honorably, justly, and mercifully.
If you discover, as so many have including me, that the Criminals took over in 1787, and that they are still occupying our government at our Federal level, they are still pretending to be our government at our Federal level, then you will no longer be driven by that LIE, and you will no longer be inspired to injure innocent people by that LIE, because you will then know better about that LIE.
Those criminals themselves, at the False Federal level, may not even know that they are criminals, so it may be a good idea to begin informing them in no uncertain terms, that we the people will no longer tolerate the LIE.
We will no longer add credibility to the LIE.
Until such time as someone, anyone, working as an employee at the False Federal Level, confesses that their employers are enemies of our Liberty, there can be no return back to our Federal government; contained behind our Bill of Rights.
If they say, as they did in their Constitution, that they are Federal Agents here to enforce slavery, to return the slaves back to their masters, then we, we the good people, we the moral people, say to those criminals that they are not our Federal Agents, no, by their actions they are criminals perpetrating crimes behind a False Federal Agency.
We the people assemble as 4 people in each county, and we take each False Federal Agent through our due process, and we do so in defense of that criminal, so as to afford that criminal the opportunity to know better, to know, beyond a reasonable doubt, that that criminal is NOT a Federal Agent of our government at our Federal level.
We the 4 (plus a secretary makes 5) are then commanded by our principles, by our need for accurate accounting, by our common need for our common defense that avoids LIES, we then assemble by LOT the number of 25 people to create, according to our common law procedures, the procedures handed down to us by our ancestors, not the procedures dictated to us by criminals, our true procedures based upon our true principles, not the false procedures based upon LIES, and those 25 people are then moving much closer to intimate contact between defenders of Liberty and criminal aggressors who may violently destroy life on earth, so those 25 people ought to be intimately familiar with our common law principles without ERROR of any kind, because lives are at stake, our lives are at stake at that point when someone will not listen to reason, and then those 25 can offer, again, reasonable remedy for the accused who may be accused of perpetrating crimes under a False Federal claim of Authority.
If the 4 people volunteering (with or without just compensation for their valuable time and energy = their power to survive well in Liberty) cannot reason with the man commanding the attack dog, then 25 people are assembled by LOT (sortition).
You ought to know the history of "sortition" by the way.
If the man proves to be more beastly than the dog, in that case, and the man refuses to listen to reason, to reason out how the man is misled by LIES, then the 25 are assembled to offer the man a more reasonable defense against further harm done to the man, due to those LIES.
If the 25 cannot reason with the man, affording the man a reasonable defense against further injury resulting from false belief in the LIE, then 12 are assembled with more POWER, and now the rubber meets the road, and now those 12 command all the POWER anyone commands in our country to deal with beasts among us, beasts who WILL not listen to reason, beasts who WILL command dogs to attack innocent people, beasts who WILL NOT cease and desist, beasts who WILL burn children alive in churches if ordered to do so, by False Federal Agents, or by any criminal order ordered by any criminal anywhere, because we all know, beyond a reasonable doubt, that burning innocent children alive in churches is a crime.
Deterrence of crime is not possible when the criminals take over the apparatus that is put in place to deter crime.
If that is not understood, at that Federal Level, then how can anyone expect to understand how things went so wrong at the Constitutional Republic level, or the county level, or the city level, or the church level, or the family level, or the individual level?

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 Posted: Mon Jun 2nd, 2014 07:15 pm
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Joe Kelley

Joined: Mon Nov 21st, 2005
Location: California USA
Posts: 6398
Infiltration of true principle in the form of accurately measurable falsehood.
Dictatorship of falsehood hidden behind a very thin veil of authority.
If you cannot see it, then either you are woefully ignorant or it is my error in fabricating something that I see clearly yet what I see clearly is false by my own construction.
These two videos, in context to our State of our common defense of our Liberty in our country is extremely important and therefore any error of my own judgement, as I understand costs of error to be real, in real terms, horrible realities in fact, inspires me to take care in reporting precisely how I construct my viewpoint in this case.
This video relinked here:
That video is a case study of how LIES drive people into a common, shared, belief in those LIES, whereby those people bound together by those LIES are very dangerous to themselves, and those people are very dangerous to anyone they may be inspired to injure as a result of their binding they do together as they are bound up by those LIES.
Contrary, in stark contrast to those very dangerous people driven by LIES, are these people in this RESPONSE to those people above (Truth responding to LIES in time and place):
Which lies are the most damaging?
That above question is not some wild conspiracy theory hatched out of a twisted mind by some sick individual who ought not have access to a pointed stick let alone access to the many readers bound by our common defense, our Liberty, connected to this National Liberty Alliance Web Page.
You be the judge. I am going to be a PROVISIONAL administrator offering advice to a future situation such as this specific case occurring in that specific county, in that Constitutional Republic of Nevada, in our Federal Voluntary Common Defense Association (our real Federation not the false one currently in POWER).
You tell me where I go wrong as I offer my advice on the LIES being spread in this video:
"You do not ever leave a man behind on the battle field."
That is stupid from a simple, well taught, perspective that any first responder is taught when anyone faces a situation involving injury to someone by something.
Anyone taking a simple first aid class is taught first, and foremost, that care must drive decision making concerning YOUR actions before you JERK YOUR KNEE and before you are the fool rushing in where angels fear to tread.
The sound advice is offered to anyone responding to an initial awareness of someone injured whereby the first responder MUST evaluate the real possibility that YOUR KNEE JERK reaction of rushing into the situation may end up with you dying the exact same way that the one you want to help died, or was injured.
The obvious TRUTH of this, if understood reasonably, is a steady stream of people rushing in to save someone, and no one ever figures out how stupid that type of stupidity is, and each successive fool is followed by each next fool, and the bodies of dead people, destroyed the same way, never stop flowing into the same meat grinder.
That is such a fundamental ERROR that such a foolish error being retold by someone is beyond reason, let alone a whole bunch of people "voting" such LIES into a shared belief in such LIES.
I can't even bring myself to listen further, not at this point, there are better things to do than to listen to steady streams of LIES parroted, regurgitated, repeated, as if by repeating these lies these lies will someday become true.
Too many hours watching Hollywood movies?
Please, help me, if you see my error in this, where I go wrong, please consider helping me see the error of my judgment in this case, for in my view these STARK differences in viewpoints are FUNDAMENTAL examples of precisely what is RIGHT and precisely what is WRONG in our struggle for Liberty.

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 Posted: Mon Jun 2nd, 2014 07:15 pm
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Joe Kelley

Joined: Mon Nov 21st, 2005
Location: California USA
Posts: 6398
Oath Keepers above.
"Marines have the right to refuse an unlawful order..."
Here is precisely where the people MUST help our specialists who specialize in effecting our mutual defense in ways that constitute that specific phrase offered in our common history.
Fools rush in where angles fear to tread.
Combine that with this:
Proverbs 8: To fear God is to hate evil.
I am not being extremely careful with my sources here, but that can be done after the general principles are offered to anyone caring to know general principles.
The reason why the criminals get away with so much wanton destruction, in our time, is that the criminals have figured out how to consume the best and brightest people born in America.
We the people have to get on the same page.
Which page?
We the people "...have the right to refuse an unlawful order..."
There is an example that ought to be employed by anyone who cares to understand, by example, the meaning of our natural right to behave morally on our own authority in time and place.
Here is such an example:
Not too many of us know where things in our country turned from moral people in command of our common defense by our authority to know right from wrong, as our world turned bad, as our world was then commanded by very evil people commanding their POWER OF LIES upon us.
We ought to know the truth.
But, having an understanding of how the FUNDAMENTAL LIES work, and actually being on the ground in situations requiring sound moral judgment, is what it is, in time and place, and it is then no longer an idea, if the principle works, then it works in fact.
Hugh Thompson, by now almost frantic, saw bodies in the ditch, including a few people who were still alive. He landed his helicopter and told Calley to hold his men there while he evacuated the civilians. (One account reports Thompson told his helicopter crew chief to "open up on the Americans" if they fired at the civilians, but Thompson later said he did not remember having done so.) He put himself between Calley's men and the Vietnamese. When a rescue helicopter landed, Thompson had the nine civilians, including five children, flown to the nearest army hospital. Later, Thompson was to land again and rescue a baby still clinging to her dead mother.
Now, thinking of principles again, in time and place, either principles work, or principles do not work.
Starkness of NIGHT is contrasted against the starkness of DAY, as EVIL is starkly contrasted against clear examples of GOOD.
Facing misled fellow soldiers so as to defend an innocent baby, in time and place, is contrasted by the following:
Later that same day, Randy, Kevin, and Vicki Weaver, Randy's wife went down to where the boy lay and carried his body back to an outbuilding near the cabin. There they removed the child's clothing and bathed his wounds and prepared the body. The next evening Weaver's oldest daughter, Sarah, sixteen, Kevin, and Randy went back to the shed to have a last look at Sam. When they did, government snipers opened fire. Randy was hit in the shoulder. The three turned and ran for the house where Vicki, with her 10 month old baby in her arms stood holding the door open. As the 3 entered the house Vicki was shot and slowly fell to her knees, her head resting on the floor like one kneeling in prayer. Randy ran up and took the baby that she clutched, and then he lifted his wife's head. Half her face was blown away.
LIES drive good people leading good people to become beasts.
This is not news.
LIES distort sound moral judgment.
It may be a good idea to discover the principle LIES that compound into special interests whereby the worst evil beasts imaginable are having so much fun at the expense of the innocent among us.
This is not news.
Perhaps like me there are people among us, like me, who learn from past errors, and we find current solutions.
Take any victim anywhere. Afford them as much due process as anyone else, including the worst criminals imaginable, an effective defense against any harm at all.
Every one, without exception, every single one, including mothers holding babies, including babies, everyone is afforded as much common decency as anyone else INCLUDING the same due process afforded to the worst criminals imaginable in all of our common history.
What would that due process look like if that due process fell into your lap?
"When they did, government snipers opened fire."
That is a LIE. Criminals open fire on mothers holding babies. Affording them the credit they earn, not the False label of "government snipers"? Criminals issue criminal orders.
Claiming that the order is unlawful is giving too much credit to the criminals who issue criminal orders.
Giving credit to the criminals.
Giving credit to the criminals.
Call them criminals. Stop calling them government agents.
Whose government are they working for, if you claim that they are government agents?
When a criminal perpetrates a crime without a false badge, do you rush to them to give them a badge, so as to help them cover up their crimes?
A run of the mill, average criminal, perpetrating horrible crimes as the victims witness first hand, is known as a criminal, NOT as a government agent.
Will you rush to the defense of an average criminal perpetrating horrible crimes as the victims witness first hand precisely what horror means in time and place, you rush in to pin a badge of innocence upon the criminal and thereby afford the criminal the opportunity to perpetuate their horrible crimes they continue, growing more and more beastly by the minute, as the bodes of the tortured innocent pile all the way up to heaven?
No, that is absurd, no one in their right mind would intentionally place a badge of innocence on people who burn babies alive in churches, or place a badge of innocence on people who shoot mothers holding their babies as teenage children watch their mother die a horrible death.
So why does anyone in their right mind call those murderers government agents?
Did you know that the government sniper who shot Vicky Weaver was still working as a "government sniper" during the pogrom in Waco Texas?
Sure, sure, everyone, including the worst criminals, every one, is afforded the same due process, for our common defense, for our Liberty, because principles either work or they do not work, and this principle of due process afforded to everyone without exception does work, when people use it, but when people ignore it, when those who order those specialists to obey orders to shoot innocent mother's holding babies, to torture children in churches, to burn babies alive, then it may be a good idea to hold one of those "leaders" running "our federal" government to an accurate accounting once.
Once is better than never.

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 Posted: Mon Jun 2nd, 2014 07:16 pm
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Joe Kelley

Joined: Mon Nov 21st, 2005
Location: California USA
Posts: 6398
From the following address the secretary of San Bernardino County Provisional Common Law Grand Jury Administration sent a telling message:
Cut and pasted from e-mail notice:
Read by Ammon Bundy at the Clark County Sheriff Precinct, May 2, 2014
As we have had the opportunity to reflect on the events that took place between March 26th and April 12th, 2014-we have experienced feelings of concern, confusion, fear, anger, sadness and joy.
Our peaceful community has been shaken. In many ways, we are still processing the magnitude of what took place. We ask ourselves so many questions; did the federal government really come into this valley and terrorize our community?
Did hundreds of armed forces, in Red Dawn fashion, lock down the hills and valleys of our peaceful home-threatening at gunpoint, anyone who stepped off the paved road, with forceful and lethal action?
Did we really see armed forces convoying through the streets of our town, diligently recording names and identities of anyone who glanced wrong or opposed them in any way?
Was there really heavy equipment in the form of dump trucks and backhoes, on our mountains, tearing up infrastructure that we have used for hundreds of years, and is vital to our survival? Were we truly in the cross-hairs of snipers, and under surveillance by the latest in technological weapons?
Did these forces actually point their rifles in the faces of our little children, while beating their unarmed fathers to the dirt and hauling them off in chains?
Did they really body-slam our friend, a 59 year old woman to the ground, and sic German Shepherds on our neighbors-even a pregnant woman?
Did they actually shock a man multiple times with a 50,000 volt Taser for honorably protecting his aunt, while she gathered herself out of the dust?
We reflect in sadness and awe that this could take place in our little town. The terror of armed men occupying our land will never be forgotten. The feelings of despair of these events will long reside in our hearts. Thoughts of anxiousness that this may ever happen again, will awaken us from our pillows from time to time.
During quiet reflection, we may ask ourselves if we did the right thing by resisting. Were we in the right when we acted to safeguard ourselves? When the only response to our multiple pleas for help was silence, when we were left alone to clean our cuts and wounds, did we have a divine right, duty, and obligation to protect our family and ourselves?
We recall the many times we pleaded with our local government to protect us; the numerous times we called 911, and begged our Sheriff to send his deputies to assist. Our cries of distress were met with silence. We ask ourselves, "Did we try hard enough to get our local government and law enforcement to act as a buffer and perform their duty to protect and serve?"
Were the hundreds of phone calls not enough, or is it just that our elected leaders and Sheriff have forsaken the people in trade for power and money? We whole-heartedly want to believe that our Sheriff would not abandon us, but where has his shielding influence been?
Why was he not here to represent and protect the very men, women and children of his county that he swore an oath for? Why did he stand silent and neutral, knowing our community was in terror? What was his motivation of inaction; was it fear of the federal government or political reprisal from powerful politicians?
The scars of this traumatic event will heal over time. We hope our community will eventually return to a sense of normalcy. We fervently hope and pray that these heavy-handed tactics will not be used on us or any other American ever again. We wonder if our hopes will be in vain; will they return?
Will they come back with greater force and more cunning tactics than before? Will our Sheriff keep his oath this time, and use his lawful forces to stop them, or will the people be left to their own protection? Will the good people of this nation yet again have to come running to the rescue of a neighbor?
Will veterans, retired police force, churches, businesses, families and individuals have to unite once again to confront these acts of governmental terror upon the American people?
Will our local government rouse themselves from disaffection and intervene-protecting the people? Will they stop fearing to do the right thing and come to the realization that the people are more important than a government agency? Will they fight for the rights of the state and her people?
They must stop putting personal gain and advancement in front of the rights of citizens.
They need to recognize, that as our elected representatives, they have more power than those governing in brute force, as they have the might of the people of this state backing them. With that power we invest in them, they have the obligation to safeguard our livelihoods, combat forces of fear, and protect our lives with their own.
A few weeks ago, our community was in a state of innocence and naivety. We felt safe and mostly kept to ourselves. We thought the world's problems would only affect us through television, and could be shut off with the push of a button.
Our innocence has left us now, we have experienced first-hand the breath of force upon our necks. We have gasped in desperation as our lives and agency were threatened. Our cries have been ignored by our guardians in the next room.
We faced a choice-either lie down and submit helplessly in defeat, or bite, scratch, and fight until help would come. We are eternally and profoundly grateful for the many heroic neighbors who heard our desperate cries and crashed through the windows to rescue.
We additionally thank the thousands that came from every States in this great nation, and stood in front of raised guns in our defense, and for the hope that those same guns would never come to their doors and their families.
We are grateful for those that arrived with pen and camera, those that arrived with faith and prayers, and those that arrived with fist and gun. The variety of support from all walks of life has shown that this was an event that truly touched the good hearts of many Americans.
We cannot thank you all enough-you have restored our faith in the goodness of the American people. Our message to all, is that it is time to make things right. It is time to adhere to the supreme law of the land-The Constitution of the United States.
It is time to understand right, stand for what's right, and do whatever it takes to make it right. We must continue the vision of our Founding Fathers in preserving the freedoms of the American people and the sovereign rights of the States.
A nation can never abandon its fate to an authority it cannot control.
Men must decide if their rights and freedoms are God-granted or are assigned by a federal government. We believe in the rule of laws and sustain a limited government. May God bless us to protect this sacred instrument.
Thank you,
The Bundy Family
Please Forward to friends and family.
The secretary here at the Provisional San Bernardino Common Law Grand Jury room is my wife, so she forwarded that to family, or to friend, and I as Administrator of the Provisional San Bernardino County Common Law Grand Jury Due Process Jury room share that with Friends of Liberty, as I interpret the request, and the reasoning of offering such information.
Anyone claiming that secret messages can be kept from our enemies is probably not up to speed on the latest "intelligence" gathering technology used by our enemies foreign and domestic, so my life is an open book; within obvious limits: who really cares about all this information?
A principle is at work when our enemies foreign and domestic are spread too thin and there are way too many effective defenders defending from way too many advantage points based upon honest truth, honor, justice, mercy, and simple decency. The word effective deterrence applies in this manner.
When their lies are being torn down the cages bottling up accurate accounting flows out of those cages in a flood.
How can the best information be utilized most effectively for our common defense?
Now you may see, in that question, why I think discussion is a powerful tool that can be used to answer that vital question with many competitive answers and a process can work so as to pick through the best answers and arrive at best of the best answers leading to right steps taken first; instead of right steps never taken at all.
Why, for example, is there no mention by anyone other than very few of us, as far as I can see, concerning the obvious process by which the events in BUNKERVILLE are no longer repeated by the criminals because the criminals know, beyond a reasonable doubt, that they cannot profit from such crimes in our country?
The obvious process can be walked through step by step for anyone wanting to know how due process works according to our common law.
All that is needed is the will to invent each step, borrow each step, copy each step, adapt each step, along the way in an obvious common sense, common law, due process defense that is effective in defending against all enemies foreign and domestic.
Removing thousands of failed methods and zeroing in with laser like focus on the one tried and true method, which is our common law grand jury due process, or our common law trial by jury due process, instead of any other kangaroo court type counterfeit version of our law of our land, leads to which step done by who right there in that county?
What happens if those events are happening now, or soon, in the county you live in?
What happens if those events are happening right down your street, or road, or trail, where you live?
The same common defense, common law, common sense, accurate accounting solution works in any case.
A victim or a representative of the victim documents precisely what injury is done to the victim, when, where, and by who, in any case.
How is that not an obvious moral, common sense, common law, due process, common defense vital step to be taken in a case where a crime, by a fraud hiding behind color law especially, has been perpetrated?
This is not that tough to realize, so why are only a few people seeing this from this angle of view whereby effective defense is realized in every single case without exception?
That is one very small, but telling, bit of evidence in this case.
That bit of evidence is handed to someone who will then assemble further information and then a few people, perhaps 4 people, perhaps 5 people, gain access to our common law grand jury due process as if it was their own sorry asses on the line, and they call forth 25 people out of the jury pool to sit as common law grand jury members commanding our common law grand jury.
I can read plain English:
Amendment V
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
Those words do not tell me that people need permission from some criminal to then get permission from some criminal to defend against some criminal. Criminals do not follow the laws they claim to be enforcing upon their victims.
Our ancestors were fully aware of that simple fact.
We the people must effect our own defense and we have the tools to do it and those tools are called presentments and indictments whereby the victim is defended as the accused are placed on trial if no other reasonable restitution is afforded to the victim by any means whatsoever.
Please, please, stop being a criminal? The criminals demand that the victims pay them for protection from them, and we the victims are inspired to ask the criminals for mercy?
So that attack dog in that picture represents a misled force of aggression whereby the force of aggression causes an injury upon a victim.
So the victim is inspired to ask the criminals for mercy while the victim pays the criminal all the earnings, the economic power, that the criminal demands as protection money?
Only a few people actually solve this problem?
The one ordering the aggressive force into actions that result in the injury of innocent people are perpetrating crimes, and that is how criminals get away with their crimes, because the criminals are never the ones proven to be the ones issuing the criminal orders.
That one, in that picture, is ordering the dog to attack an innocent victim.
Who, precisely who, ordered that one into such a difficult position as to be following criminal orders or refusing to follow criminals orders which then results in unemployment, economic hardship, loss of profits?
The dog was able to make a better choice than to follow criminal orders.
The original order to unleash the dogs of war constitute the root, base, origin, of that crime as that crime STILL progresses.
The criminal in our common law faces due process for his own protection, because natural law is understood in our common law, natural law and our common law are based upon the same principles. A criminal will eventually be consumed by their own wrongdoing, which can be called blowback, or it can be illustrated in other accurate accounts all throughout our common history.
The common law process is a willful intent by the people to find the root cause of the crime in progress and to NULLIFY it before it spreads and consumes more and more victims.
The process in the common law grand jury phase can be easily understood in this specific example.
The Sheriff who decides to abandon his duties (Declaration of Independence clearly defines our duties as moral people) will not be paid for abandoning his duties or those payments flow in that way, from the public fund into the hands of a derelict, according to whose orders?
What are the punishments for dereliction of duty according to the Statutes that define the duties of the Sheriff in that county?
The example provided by The Unified Common Law Grand Jury of New York offers an additional dereliction of duty in the form of a derelict Prosecutor who is also paid very well out of the public fund for, at least, failing to do their job according to their own Statutes that prescribe their duties.
The duties of the people, on the other hand, are clear in any moral mind, in any place, where an innocent victim is currently suffering at the hands of a busy gang of criminals. To do nothing is dereliction of duty, and all that nothing will buy anyone is a delay in the time it takes before the criminals start working on everybody, and the cost for those who are derelict in our common sense, moral, duties is our existing as beasts in Hell on Earth of our making.
So the derelict Sheriff and the derelict Prosecutor, in any case, is at a minimum guilty of failing to do their duties according to the Statues that govern their duties that they must do in order for them to receive compensation out of the public fund.
The attack man ordering the attack dog now has company in the list of names of people guilty of their own crimes of morality, their own crimes according to their own governing Statues, and they are then guilty of obstruction of justice according to our common law, because their actions separate the people from our common defense, common law grand jury, due process.
BLM man with attack dog follows criminal orders and there is no common law grand jury indictment handed to the Sheriff, who must make a choice, to arrest the criminal, or criminals, who issue the original criminal order to attack innocent people with attack dogs?
By the way, this does not escape my notice, even if this escapes the readers notice, or even if this escapes the notice of anyone who saw the video, real time, when those attack dogs were ordered to attack innocent people, and what did not escape my notice was how the attack dogs refused to follow the criminal order.
It is a sorry State when those who are hired to take good care of public lands are less capable of moral judgment than a well trained attack dog.
Note too, those people hired to take good care of public lands who backed away from the confrontation at the fence, after they threatened innocent people with their guns drawn, did make the right decision in that case, obviously, so the accurate account ought to be recorded well in that specific case of moral judgment. Where those "BLM" agents ordered to back away, or did they decide on their own authority to do the right thing despite having been sent, by criminal orders, to perpetrate obvious crimes upon innocent victims?
Amendment VII
In Suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise re-examined in any Court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.
Like moral conscience our laws of our land are either used or lost in time and place.
What is the next step?

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 Posted: Mon Jun 2nd, 2014 07:16 pm
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Joe Kelley

Joined: Mon Nov 21st, 2005
Location: California USA
Posts: 6398
No, I won't stop.
"...government overreach..."
“We Are No Longer a Nation Ruled By Laws”
That is all part of the deception.
The Constitution is not our government. The Constitution is an error filled document that can be used, abused, or ignored by people.
Our government is us.
If we abuse a Constitution, a position of authority, a power of authority, a gun, a pointed stick, words, then we, as individuals, abuse, perpetrate, commit, act, and when our actions injure other people then we, as individuals, are guilty of an accurately measurable crime, and therefore said crime can be recorded as such as we govern ourselves with our government.
Those people speaking and writing in those links CONSTITUTE our government as they offer reports of wrongdoing by WHO?
"...government overreach..."
No, that is parroting the lie, those people who "overreached" when they shot and murdered Martin Luther King, or those people who "overreached" when they beat Rodney King half to death, WERE NOT OUR GOVERNMENT.
Why does this lie command so much POWER in people, good people?
“We Are No Longer a Nation Ruled By Laws”
That is a clear and present danger to anyone who understands the power of ONE LIE.
A Nation is not the land, nor the form of government, nor the FUND collected to finance the government, nor the buildings, nor the fences, nor the written words on the records recorded in government files, rather that Nation (a label) is the people bound by their TRUST in each other.
How far into absolute despotism would have been our fate in this Nation had we the people listened too well to that one LIE?
We the people ARE governed by our TRUST in each other, even now, even under these worsening conditions, and that is OUR POWER, and that cannot be stolen, that POWER must be given up by us voluntarily.
Our enemies know it, they know it very well, and that is why our enemies spend so much of the POWER they stole from us investing in their INDOCTRINATION procedures.
We are certainly ignorant, we are certainly apathetic, we are certainly less that perfect in our care for each other, but our government is principle.
Our government is MORAL principle, and it exists in each soul, and the collective total sum of all that MORAL principle in each soul is precisely what must be given by us to our enemies before our enemies can enslave us.
Our enemies are fully aware of that fact, and they are fully aware of how powerful we the people still are with our MORAL principles, our TRUST in each other, which is readily apparent and easy to measure with precise accuracy.
If we were without our MORAL principles we would never trade anything with anyone without first having the thing wanted handed to us while the thing traded is handed on that spot at that time, like the often repeated INDOCTRINATION shown in Hollywood movies when a Drug Deal is made, or a Kidnapping Ransom is Exchanged for the Kidnap Victim.
That is what the criminals MUST have before the following is true:
“We Are No Longer a Nation Ruled By Laws”
That is a damn lie.
Believe it, parrot it, give it POWER and your investment may some day be earning you benefits?
At what cost will you gain benefits, who pays, when you invest so heavily in ONE LIE?

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 Posted: Mon Jun 2nd, 2014 07:16 pm
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Joe Kelley

Joined: Mon Nov 21st, 2005
Location: California USA
Posts: 6398
Thanks for the feedback. I am inspired to wonder about a fool and his irrelevant words, soon parted onto paper.
The problem may be, with some of us, certainly not everyone, our egos can't stand the hit?
If the idea is to avoid self censorship then over a period of time the reader can find many words hidden in many obscure places such as:
Finding knowledge that rings true despite the false labels placed at the doors and hallways whereby the reader is told to beware.
"First in the importance of its evil influence they considered the money monopoly, which consists of the privilege given by the government to certain individuals, or to individuals holding certain kinds of property, of issuing the circulating medium, a privilege which is now enforced in this country by a national tax of ten per cent., upon all other persons who attempt to furnish a circulating medium, and by State laws making it a criminal offense to issue notes as currency. It is claimed that the holders of this privilege control the rate of interest, the rate of rent of houses and buildings, and the prices of goods, – the first directly, and the second and third indirectly. For, say Proudhon and Warren, if the business of banking were made free to all, more and more persons would enter into it until the competition should become sharp enough to reduce the price of lending money to the labor cost, which statistics show to be less than three-fourths of once per cent. In that case the thousands of people who are now deterred from going into business by the ruinously high rates which they must pay for capital with which to start and carry on business will find their difficulties removed. If they have property which they do not desire to convert into money by sale, a bank will take it as collateral for a loan of a certain proportion of its market value at less than one per cent. discount. If they have no property, but are industrious, honest, and capable, they will generally be able to get their individual notes endorsed by a sufficient number of known and solvent parties; and on such business paper they will be able to get a loan at a bank on similarly favorable terms. Thus interest will fall at a blow. The banks will really not be lending capital at all, but will be doing business on the capital of their customers, the business consisting in an exchange of the known and widely available credits of the banks for the unknown and unavailable, but equality good, credits of the customers and a charge therefor of less than one per cent., not as interest for the use of capital, but as pay for the labor of running the banks. This facility of acquiring capital will give an unheard of impetus to business, and consequently create an unprecedented demand for labor, – a demand which will always be in excess of the supply, directly to the contrary of the present condition of the labor market. Then will be seen an exemplification of the words of Richard Cobden that, when two laborers are after one employer, wages fall, but when two employers are after one laborer, wages rise. Labor will then be in a position to dictate its wages, and will thus secure its natural wage, its entire product. Thus the same blow that strikes interest down will send wages up. But this is not all. Down will go profits also. For merchants, instead of buying at high prices on credit, will borrow money of the banks at less than one per cent., buy at low prices for cash, and correspondingly reduce the prices of their goods to their customers. And with the rest will go house-rent. For no one who can borrow capital at one per cent. with which to build a house of his own will consent to pay rent to a landlord at a higher rate than that. Such is the vast claim made by Proudhon and Warren as to the results of the simple abolition of the money monopoly."
What can happen, in some cases, is a seed of thought, an idea, is planted, such as Liberty, and it goes so much against the grain as to inspire the thinker to keep his head down to the level of the crowd, and then down even further as the crowd is given haircuts, and then as the crowd is being beheaded, the thinker, with private thoughts of unpopular wisdom is inspired to stick their head in the sand?
Some don't. Very few volunteer to part with their irrelevant words on a daily basis?

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 Posted: Mon Jun 2nd, 2014 07:16 pm
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Joe Kelley

Joined: Mon Nov 21st, 2005
Location: California USA
Posts: 6398
Which information is worthy of note?
Which information inspires the moral people to gather into groups for the expressed purpose of common defense against common criminals?
During the Kern County Constituting meeting a few things were discussed generally, and we had no time for diving into specifics.
We spoke about events such as Waco, the forming of militias in response to Waco (and Ruby Ridge), and current events in Nevada such as this wise old working man in the video link.
Speaking about video links:
In context of common law grand jury proceedings I offer the following words.
If that old man does not know a phone number he can call to access due process, as was the case in Waco, then anyone can do anything to anyone else with impunity and with that impunity is profit and with profit is interest and with interest is supply which then creates demand and there will never be an end to the number of people who volunteer to be criminals until all the victims are consumed.
Evil wins in that process.
That process is due the victims by the criminals. The victims have no due process. Due process is not for victims, in that case. They call 911, the 911 people crawl under the table. The 911 people have no interest in due process that is due everyone without exception, there interest is in doing as told, when told, by the criminals, not the victims.
Common law, so long as we stand up for our common defense, is due everyone including the criminals, especially the criminals because the criminals are afforded a way out of their hell on earth of their making.
The old man, the working man, who so far as done nothing wrong at all, nothing but good, is now desperately seeking something.
At least, in those videos by that family, we are afforded the information required to know precisely how far into hell on earth we are willing to go, if that family is burned alive too.
In due process due victims by criminals what happens when someone dares to do a good dead?
Do I intend to scare people back under their tables?
All it takes is a pebble in the water, or the flutter of a butterfly wing, in the right direction instead of the wrong direction, in each brain.
A simple no.
No, that is not our way in our country, not while I am alive.
When is it no longer doubtful?

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 Posted: Mon Jun 2nd, 2014 07:17 pm
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Joe Kelley

Joined: Mon Nov 21st, 2005
Location: California USA
Posts: 6398
Update 05/31/2014
Straight from the horses mouth?
That is not democracy, that is organized crime. If people are driven by a desire to destroy other people then the accurate word for that guiding principle is CRIME not DEMOCRACY.
It is very unfortunate that so many people are confused about criminals and criminal behavior BECAUSE the criminals use words that sound like something remotely good.
If a criminal calls what they are doing a vote, then the fools vote?
They don't vote, they become the proverbial angry mob. The are driven by false information and either the false information is an honest error, or the false information is a deliberate, willful, deception.
The word Democracy is well reported with accurate meanings from the works of Thomas Paine and many other sources. Democracy is one type of process that is created so as to afford people a competitive option in opposition to Rule by Man.
If there is opposition to Rule by Man, then that opposition is Democracy, or Anarchy, or a Constitutional Republic, or many Constitutional Republics joined into a Voluntary Federation, or Trial by Jury, or Rule of Law, or Natural Law, or God's Law.
One Man (dictator, criminal, tyrant, Organized Crime Don, Organized crime Boss, the worst of the worst evil criminals taking over the top of the Organized Crime Pyramid) is One Monopoly Form of so called Government, when even the word Government is a False Front because One Man Ruling everyone else is Crime, plain and simple Crime, not Government.
So the Criminals convince their victims that the victims working a NON-one man, rule by man, crimes spree, or Government (non-crime), or Democracy (non-crime), or Constitutional Republics joined into a Voluntary Federation (non-crime), or Trial by Jury (non-crime), or whatever is a NON-ONE MAN RULER CRIME SPREE, is what they the criminals do; meaning: bait and switch; meaning, "hey you victims working effectively against crime", "hey you, we criminals claim that we are working effectively against crime too," and that is then demonstrably false. While that criminal claim is false the work done by criminals upon victims INCLUDES the creation and maintenance of that FALSE FRONT: paid for by the loot stolen from the victims who produce anything worth stealing, including moral souls.
The Criminals convince the Victims that the Criminals are the Government, and the Victims believe the lie, and the victims fail to question the lie, and perpetual crime is passed from generation to generation until everyone is turned into beasts eating each other like Rats on the sinking ship the RATS sink BECAUSE word magic works?
I speak, and write, plain English and people have the audacity to blame me for failing to communicate; while they call obvious crimes with False words like Democracy?
So the Republicans are out to get the Democrats because the Republicans blame the Democrats for all the crimes perpetrated by the angry mobs that are fomented into fighting each other by people casting spells with words? Republicans point to the Democrats and yell lies at them, or half truths, so as to condemn the democrats, every one of them, all of them, all at once, because that is how things are done in our so called government?
All the Democrats are out to get all the Republicans because all the Democrats are told that a Republic is nothing but a bunch of Capitalists who are out to shake everyone down and take their last penny, just so that the Capitalists can buy another yacht in another Capitalists controlled Vacation Resort where the rich get richer and the poor grow every more destitute?
All the while it is the Criminals NOT THE GOVERNMENT spreading these lies to ALL sides, not just Democrats and Republicans?
So the Old Man speaks about an Angry Mob fomented into a criminal gang, ever ready to do malice to anyone that they summarily find guilty before investigation.
And the same Old Man can't see this:
What is that?
How about asking someone to offer a defense against wild accusations made during the fomenting of an angry mob - if that is what that is in fact (prima facie)?
And the layers of the lies go even deeper?
Why call those so called BLM people anything other than Criminals when they begin perpetrating crimes? Why call criminals "The FEDS"?
In Trial by Jury, the accuser is by Natural Law going to call the accused "criminals," and then a cooler head, a tribunal, a jury, a group and not ONE MAN, a disinterested, no conflict of interest group, no special interest group, no for-profit-of-a-few-at-the-expense-of-the-many group, no unclean hands group, no legal fiction limited liability group, no non-arms length group, PRESUMES THE ACCUSED TO BE INNOCENT, during discovery of the facts, discovery of the law, and judgement, and punishment (if any), after exhausting all possible remedies offered voluntarily to the people in conflict.
Is there a crime?
Who is the victim, or victims?
Can the victims be afforded due process, so as to defend the victim from further injury, and so as to repair the damage done if possible?
Who is accused, presumed to be innocent, and can negotiations be commenced in the effort to resolve the matter?
What is that?
Is that not the following?
Though the ancient governments present to us a miserable picture of the condition of man, there is one which above all others exempts itself from the general description. I mean the democracy of the Athenians. We see more to admire, and less to condemn, in that great, extraordinary people, than in any thing which history affords.
Mr. Burke is so little acquainted with constituent principles of government, that he confounds democracy and representation together. Representation was a thing unknown in the ancient democracies. In those the mass of the people met and enacted laws (grammatically speaking) in the first person. [note: look up the word sortition for a possible greater understanding of this time period]
Simple democracy was no other than the common hall of the ancients. It signifies the form, as well as the public principle of the government. As these democracies increased in population, and the territory extended, the simple democratical form became unwieldy and impracticable; and as the system of representation was not known, the consequence was, they either degenerated convulsively into monarchies, or became absorbed into such as then existed.
Had the system of representation been then understood, as it now is, there is no reason to believe that those forms of government, now called monarchical and aristocratical, would ever have taken place. It was the want of some method to consolidate the parts of society, after it became too populous, and too extensive for the simple democratical form, and also the lax and solitary condition of shepherds and herdsmen in other parts of the world, that afforded opportunities to those unnatural modes of government to begin.
As it is necessary to clear away the rubbish of errors, into which the subject of government has been thrown, I shall proceed to remark on some others.
It has always been the political craft of courtiers and court-governments, to abuse something which they called republicanism; but what republicanism was, or is, they never attempt to explain. Let us examine a little into this case.
The only forms of government are, the democratical, the aristocratical, the monarchical, and what is now called the representative.
What is called a republic, is not any particular form of government. It is wholly characteristical of the purport, matter, or object for which government ought to be instituted, and on which it is to be employed, res-publica, the public affairs, or the public good; or, literally translated, the public thing.
It is a word of a good original, referring to what ought to be the character and business of government; and in this sense it is naturally opposed to the word monarchy, which has a base original signification. It means arbitrary power in an individual person; in the exercise of which, himself, and not the res-publica, is the object.
Every government that does not act on the principle of a republic, or in other words, that does not make the res-publica its whole and sole object, is not a good government. Republican government is no other than government established and conducted for the interest of the public, as well individually as collectively. It is not necessarily connected with any particular form, but it most naturally associates with the representative form, as being best calculated to secure the end for which a nation is at the expense of supporting it.
Various forms of government have affected to style themselves a republic. Poland calls itself a republic, which is an hereditary aristocracy, with what is called an elective monarchy. Holland calls itself a republic which is chiefly aristocratical, with an hereditary stadtholdership.
But the government of America, which is wholly on the system of representation, is the only real republic in character and practise, that now exists. Its government has no other object than the public business of the nation, and therefore it is properly a republic; and the Americans have taken care that this, and no other, shall always be the object of the government, by their rejecting everything hereditary, and establishing government on the system of representation only.
Those who have said that a republic is not a form of government calculated for countries of great extent, mistook, in the first place, the business of a government for a form of government; for the res-publica equally appertains to every extent of territory and population. And, in the second place, if they meant any thing with respect to form, it was the simple democratical form, such as was the mode of government in the ancient democracies, in which there was no representation. The case therefore, is not, that a republic cannot be extensive, but that it cannot be extensive on the simple democratical form; and the question naturally presents itself, What is the best form of government for conducting the RES-PUBLICA, or the PUBLIC BUSINESS of a nation, after it becomes too extensive and populous for the simple democratical form?
It cannot be monarchy, because monarchy is subject to an objection of the same amount to which the simple democratical form was subject.
It is possible that an individual may lay down a system of principles, on which government shall be constitutionally established to any extent of territory. This is no more than an operation of the mind, acting by its own powers. But the practise upon those principles, as applying to the various and numerous circumstances of a nation, its agriculture, manufacture, trade, commerce, etc., requires a knowledge of a different kind, and which can be had only from the various parts of society.
It is an assemblage of practical knowledge, which no one individual can possess; and therefore the monarchical form is as much limited, in useful practise, from the incompetency of knowledge, as was the democratical form, from the multiplying of population. The one degenerates, by extension, into confusion; the other, into ignorance and incapacity, of which all the great monarchies are an evidence. The monarchical form, therefore, could not be a substitute for the democratical, because it has equal inconveniences.
Much less could it when made hereditary. This is the most effectual of all forms to preclude knowledge. Neither could the high democratical mind have voluntarily yielded itself to be governed by children and idiots, and all the motley insignificance of character, which attends such a mere animal system, the disgrace and the reproach of reason and of man.
As to the aristocratical form, it has the same vices and defects with the monarchical, except that the chance of abilities is better from the proportion of numbers, but there is still no security for the right use and application of them.
Referring, then, to the original simple democracy, it affords the true data from which government on a large scale can begin. It is incapable of extension, not from its principle, but from the inconvenience of its form; and monarchy and aristocracy, from their incapacity. Retaining, then, democracy as the ground, and rejecting the corrupt systems of monarchy and aristocracy, the representative system naturally presents itself; remedying at once the defects of the simple democracy as to form, and the incapacity of the other two with respect to knowledge.
Simple democracy was society governing itself without the aid of secondary means. By ingrafting representation upon democracy, we arrive at a system of government capable of embracing and confederating all the various interests and every extent of territory and population; and that also with advantages as much superior to hereditary government, as the republic of letters is to hereditary literature.
It is on this system that the American government is founded. It is representation ingrafted upon democracy. It has fixed the form by a scale parallel in all cases to the extent of the principle. What Athens was in miniature, America will be in magnitude. The one was the wonder of the ancient world; the other is becoming the admiration and model of the present. It is the easiest of all the forms of government to be understood, and the most eligible in practise; and excludes at once the ignorance and insecurity of the hereditary mode, and the inconvenience of the simple democracy.
It is impossible to conceive a system of government capable of acting over such an extent of territory, and such a circle of interests, as is immediately produced by the operation of representation. France, great and popular as it is, is but a spot in the capaciousness of the system. It adapts itself to all possible cases. It is preferable to simple democracy even in small territories. Athens, by representation, would have outrivaled her own democracy.
That which is called government, or rather that which we ought to conceive government to be, is no more than some common center, in which all the parts of society unite. This cannot be accomplished by any method so conducive to the various interests of the community, as by the representative system.
It concentrates the knowledge necessary to the interests of the parts, and of the whole. It places government in a state of constant maturity. It is, as has been already observed, never young, never old. It is subject neither to nonage, nor dotage.
The concept appears to be incomplete as the Republic form is ALSO outgrown in size, custom, distance, and connectivity which then was in need of a solution, which was found in Federation.
Explained here:
Second, federalism permits the states to operate as laboratories of democracy-to experiment with various policies and Programs. For example, if Tennessee wanted to provide a state-run health system for its citizens, the other 49 states could observe the effects of this venture on Tennessee's economy, the quality of care provided, and the overall cost of health care. If the plan proved to be efficacious other states might choose to emulate it, or adopt a plan taking into account any problems surfacing in Tennessee. If the plan proved to be a disastrous intervention, the other 49 could decide to leave the provision of medical care to the private sector. With national plans and programs, the national officials simply roll the dice for all 284 million people of the United States and hope they get things right.
Experimentation in policymaking also encourages a healthy competition among units of government and allows the people to vote with their feet should they find a law of policy detrimental to their interests. Using again the state-run health system as an example, if a citizen of Tennessee was unhappy with Tennessee's meddling with the provisions of health care, the citizen could move to a neighboring state. Reallocation to a state like North Carolina, with a similar culture and climate, would not be a dramatic shift and would be a viable option. Moreover, if enough citizens exercised this option, Tennessee would be pressured to abandon its foray into socialized medicine, or else lose much of its tax base. To escape a national health system, a citizen would have to emigrate to a foreign country, an option far less appealing and less likely to be exercised than moving to a neighboring state. Without competition from other units of government,the national government would have much less incentive than Tennessee would to modify the objectionable policy. Clearly, the absence of experimentation and competition hampers the creation of effective programs and makes the modification of failed national programs less likely.
Meaning: The NON RULE BY MAN solution (democracy) could not expand to larger areas without representation working in the form of a Public Good ("collectivism"?), but even said representative democracy FORM outgrew in size to then require another layer, of the same NON RULE BY MAN solution, which was solved with FEDERALISM.
FEDERALISM worked to retain the VOLUNTARY character of VOLUNTARY (free market?) government.
So therein you have the good of "collectivism/socialism/common public good" and "capitalism/free markets/the good of the individual," all rolled up into a working whole SO LONG AS trial by jury remained as a means by which the people defending each other from any claim of false authority by anyone in time and place.

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