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 Posted: Fri May 10th, 2013 10:51 pm
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Jee-Host[gm]
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Mana: 
I think I understand the concept of conscience except for the learning part. I do not know exactly what that part means. Can you give me more words for that part?
I don't know what you are referring to exactly.

Can one violate their conscience?
Any wrong choice does that. Wrong choice damages entity. I think that constitutes as violation. Many people like to not hear their own conscience, they rather succumb to their passions and desires.

Sergey, I do think you think that I have a parasite attached to my soul and that I am a grievous blight upon humanity because that parasite now has the use of a human mind.
First part is somewhat correct, second part is utterly incorrect.

And that you think it is proper to release my soul from this parasitic condition thru execution so that I might have a chance for a restart. Am I understanding your words correctly?

If things were that bad we wouldn't be even speaking. So no, you're not understanding me correctly. I do like allegories, but it's a double-edged blade. Yet also very useful to see how someone's mind operates. Take for instance these lyrics I wrote to Joe and apply simple and awful (yet in this case fitting) binary logic. Considering where these lyrics are from and how they sound can be considered a move by my artistic expression by means of resonation with Joe's expression. However, one can also find my words to be a sophisticated mockery considering where these lyrics are from and what kind of character uses them for what purpose. Reaction tell something about people's thought-process. And my bear-related allegories are no different.

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 Posted: Sat May 11th, 2013 01:00 am
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bear
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Mana: 
This is the part of conscience that I understand:
You might think of it as a part of one's entity, manifested as something that pushes person to do the right thing to develop the entity, and nags the person's consciousness when wrong choices are made.

This is the part that I do not understand:
'Ве' is an ancient Slavic rune that means process of acquiring knowledge.

because it is not my thought that a conscience as being something that is acquired, but something that is rather ruined when violated.

I couldn't understand your lyrics to Joe. I put them thru google translate, but they did not translate well except something about a slave:

Beautiful daughter of,
I am your slave de'vezzi;
with a saying, a saying you can only
my pains, my pains consoled.
Come and feel of my core
the frequent tremble.
With a saying, a saying you can only
my pains, my pains consoled.
--------------
I do like allegories, but it's a double-edged blade. Yet also very useful to see how someone's mind operates.

If you like to use allegories and my mind thinks literally, what does that tell you about me?


There are many things with which I agree:
Any wrong choice does that. Wrong choice damages entity. I think that constitutes as violation. Many people like to not hear their own conscience, they rather succumb to their passions and desires.

I should like to ask though, are all consciences the same? Is everyone's sense of right and wrong the same?

...

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 Posted: Sat May 11th, 2013 09:07 am
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This is the part that I do not understand:
Show some careful compiling. I'll do it for you this time. If you combine 3 meanings I mentioned you should get something like: "Will imposed by your entity, supposed to direct you to acquiring knowledge". Or something along those lines. 'Co' shows the following of design of entity. 'Несть' refers to the fact that 'ве' is being brought or inspired. Something like that. I have trouble formulating in English, you know that very well.

I couldn't understand your lyrics to Joe. I put them thru google translate, but they did not translate well except something about a slave:
I hate to make you feel embarrassed, but these lyrics are from Rigoletto. This little 'arioso' while beautiful on its own is actually a deceit in the scheme of entire play. I guess me using it can also be considered a hidden intellectual challenge - seeing how deep one can go in supposition of how deep could I have meant it.

Here's how it sounds:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=0xDkYkOHj20#t=113s

And proper translation just for the reference:

Daughter of love,
I'm enslaved by your charms
One word from you
Could ease all my pain.
Feel how my heart
                       is pounding.
One word from you
Could ease all my pain.


If you like to use allegories and my mind thinks literally, what does that tell you about me?
If that was the problem, there would be no problem. But from what I can tell - your mind doesn't think quite literally enough. At least that is my impression so far.

I should like to ask though, are all consciences the same? Is everyone's sense of right and wrong the same?
Initially I wrote a big paragraph with vague terminology, but scratch that.
Conscience is the manifestation of one's entity. Entity that incarnates in one's body is not a parasitic one, because parasitic one is unable to do that initial step (because growing a child body requires giving, something parasite is incapable of). At that point all consciences are the same, because goal of every normal entity is the same, and means of getting there are also the same. Yet entities between themselves vary due to complexity of a task at hand. They also vary in level of development. That accounts for different abilities their bodies can use in their circle of life. Ideally developing more.

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 Posted: Sat May 11th, 2013 12:36 pm
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Joe Kelley
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Mana: 
bear,

You answered my question, thanks.

My viewpoint has developed into this concept I call a power perspective. From that foundational point of view I see life as a power existing because it can employ the power available to create more power out of less power.

Life, in other words, goes forth and multiples.

Life is a power, and mathematically speaking that power can be accurately measured in time as X.

If X does not go forth and multiply then X remains to be X, only X, no more than X.

If life diminishes instead of "going forth and multiplying," and again employing math, then X can be life diminishing by a negative measure such as X - Y.

A possible illustration of such a thing as X - Y could be a fast moving massive object contacting Earth two minutes after I type this coma, and then all life on Earth ends.

X - Y

A possible illustration of "going forth and multiplying" is X + Y, or that change from Earth being what it was, and then Earth being what it is with my first child existing on Earth, then my second. I use the possessive English words with reservations.

I don't claim to own anyone in a sense that could be misunderstood; therefore I reserve, or qualify, the use of English.

I do not willfully employ English in such a way as to reach the goal of deceiving anyone.

X + Y, to me, is a way of saying, yes, bear, your answer is the answer I had in mind.

 


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 Posted: Sun May 12th, 2013 01:20 am
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bear
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Mana: 
Joe,

{quote]X + Y, to me, is a way of saying, yes, bear, your answer is the answer I had in mind.

For some reason, I thought of the last part of this passage, but the whole passage seems to fit the occasion.

Psalm 127:1 Except the LORD build the house, they labour in vain that build it: except the LORD keep the city, the watchman waketh but in vain. 2 It is vain for you to rise up early, to sit up late, to eat the bread of sorrows: for so he giveth his beloved sleep. 3 Lo, children are an heritage of the LORD: and the fruit of the womb is his reward. 4 As arrows are in the hand of a mighty man; so are children of the youth. 5 Happy is the man that hath his quiver full of them: they shall not be ashamed, but they shall speak with the enemies in the gate.

Life, in other words, goes forth and multiples.

And yet that power is not completely under our own volition, and ours alone. I cannot know for sure that I will be a Grandmother, even if a comet or any other natural destruction never happens during my lifetime.

There is also a power that takes life. There is also a force that does not give life. My children may not live to adulthood, or my children may never procreate.

Human power is finite?

...

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 Posted: Sun May 12th, 2013 01:35 am
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Mana: 
Sergey,
I hate to make you feel embarrassed,

Should I be embarassed because I am not cultured and lack class? I do not know what

Rigoletto. This little 'arioso' while beautiful on its own is actually a deceit in the scheme of entire play. I guess me using it can also be considered a hidden intellectual challenge - seeing how deep one can go in supposition of how deep could I have meant it.

even means. Perhaps I lack the intellect as well as culture and class.

But I thank you for sending along the words so I could know better. I also watched the clip and did not understand a word they sang. It was interesting though, and the audience seemed very appreciative.

You are a very interesting person. How many languages do you speak? What is your occupation?

Conscience is the manifestation of one's entity. Entity that incarnates in one's body is not a parasitic one, because parasitic one is unable to do that initial step (because growing a child body requires giving, something parasite is incapable of). At that point all consciences are the same, because goal of every normal entity is the same, and means of getting there are also the same. Yet entities between themselves vary due to complexity of a task at hand. They also vary in level of development. That accounts for different abilities their bodies can use in their circle of life. Ideally developing more.

My friend, the topic to which we do not speak has been my experience since age 7. I have grown from a child's body to an adult body. I have violated my conscience in many ways and many times by my own purposeful volition.

Is there an absolute moral law under which all consciences begin?

...

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 Posted: Sun May 12th, 2013 09:55 am
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Should I be embarassed because I am not cultured and lack class?
I thought you know this opera. Thought you might feel embarrassed for not recognizing it. I know I would.

But if you didn't know it - oh, well, does it means that I have given you too much credit? Hardly. Consider my attitude as compliment then )))

How many languages do you speak?
Russian, English, somewhat French. Can reasonably comprehend Serbian, Czech, Polish and their similar languages like Slovenian, Slovakian, Bulgarian etc.

But in terms of opera it's irrelevant. Usually in theaters they go with subtitles if language of the opera is foreign. And usually people know what opera is about and visit it expressly for artistry and singing and music. I thought USA had one of the most know Opera houses - The Metropolitan Opera. Best singers perform there. Likes of Anna Netrebko, Piotr Beczala, Mariusz Kwiecien. Even out of these three I can say that Anna is the most renowned opera singer today and the best soprano in the world. With guys things are not that straightforward, but these two are heavy names in opera scene. Go on YouTube and find them. Though no sane person can enjoyably listen to pop after that I would say )))

What is your occupation?
If you mean my work - I'm assembling server equipment. You might think of it as somewhat blue-collar work.

Is there an absolute moral law under which all consciences begin?
Conscience is a manifestation of one's entity. And entity is a material being. It has structure. Yet while entity requires 'physically dense' body - it depends on it. Entity has a purpose of development, increasing it's own dimensionality effect. You might think of it as growing. Now in our simple understanding everything we do converts matter one way or another, effectively affecting the entity. For instance - if we drink poison - it is a flowback from entity that heals us, effectively weakening the entity. Following the entity can be viewed as searching for the truth in our terms. Entity is what defines us as personalities. Entity is a skeleton that holds body together. Yet at the very young age child is vulnerable. Brain has no convolutions at all. here's a place where everything can go wrong if not properly managed. Now with my ancestors that was a great part of the culture, yet we didn't escape the problem completely. Which says to me that problem is inevitable statistically and humanity just needs to overcome it, like a disease.

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 Posted: Mon May 20th, 2013 06:12 pm
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Joe Kelley
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In the book I have a character named Henry working to escape the clutches of some of the remaining Legal Criminals who work to employ State governments as their tools to perpetrate their monopoly criminal power.

Steve intends to rescue Henry by hiring Henry to work on a very expensive job that elevates the cost of his time and energy beyond the affordability of detaining him unjustly, if detaining him unjustly were ever to be subjected to a Trial by Jury (based upon sortition). 

I looked for some high value stuff on Mars and found a few interesting links:

Interplanetary Commerce

It has been shown9 that if concentrated supplies of metals of equal or greater value than silver (i.e. silver, germanium, hafnium, lanthanum, cerium, rhenium, samarium, gallium, gadolinium, gold, palladium, iridium, rubidium, platinum, rhodium, europium, etc.) were available on Mars, they could potentially be transported back to Earth at high profit by using reusable Mars-surface based single stage to orbit vehicles to deliver the cargoes to Mars orbit, and then transporting them back to Earth using either cheap expendable chemical stages manufactured on Mars or reusable cycling solar sail powered interplanetary spacecraft. The existence of such Martians precious metal ores, however, is still hypothetical.
Currently on Earth the human beings are just beginning to realize the value of storing power, and I can look for specific things that relate to this work being done in constructing batteries, as well as looking for possible discoveries of power sources, like the Helium-3 already known to be (as far as I've read) on The Moon.

Mars Forum

2. Sale of meteorites. Meteorites on Earth are collected by both scientists and private collectors. Rare meteorites can be worth millions of dollars. Mars meteorites will be rare almost by definition. I think we could be talking about $500,000 per kg for the right meteorites. Geology.com offers advice over the web on the pricing of meteorites. At the cheap end these can start at around 50 cents per gram. But rare Mars and lunar meteorites may sell for $1,000 per gram or more – much more in some cases. So a kilogram meteorite could cost around a $1million or more. For the first ten years, I think the value of meteorite exports could be in the region of $500 million per annum.
I see no point in arguing over what is or is not on Mars, since the concept of a newly found source of power, or a newly found precious element usable for storing power, can be invented for the Novel. The introduction of evidence of intelligent life having been on Mars can also be introduced. The idea being this idea where people on Earth are now very aware of the costs associated with interfering unjustly with a human life who may be working at some enterprise of great importance.

The cost of arresting Henry who was working at State level security matters will be quantifiable as a cost that could be paid by State level powers, but Henry introduces a potential increase in the cost of detaining Henry by anyone daring to do so, if it can be proven that Henry failing to accomplish the goal, because of being detained, causes a loss that will then be charged to whoever unjustly detains Henry, assuming of course that Due Process moves into Discovery and Trial by Jury as the accused is facing such charges.

 
Equitable Commerce and Joe's Law understood?


We have seen that energy will be an important and valuable commodity in any future Martian society, However energy will be just one commodity among many on Mars, each having differing “values” at the time, based in part upon relative supply and demand. How should one assign a value to a given material in a locale which is economically isolated or that only has the ability to receive materials but has little or no return trade?

First, we must recognize the difference between “value” and “cost”. Cost is directly traceable to tangible outlays required to produce the commodity. These outlays could include infrastructure, equipment, labor, consumables, transportation and depreciation. It is worthwhile to example ways in which to determine cost, as it will provide some starting point when determining value. Unlike cost, “value” is less tangible, in that the value of a given material has a much less rigid connection with established cost. Value is determined by local supply and demand, which can at times be difficult to determine a priori.

We can estimate economic value in three ways. One possibility would be to assign the value of that same material on Earth. The authors of this chapter feel that this would be a poor choice. Even on Earth, materials that are difficult or impossible to transport have substantially different local values.

In the United States, natural gas is an example. Due to limitations on the importation of the gaseous product, combined with the relatively limited capacity of gas liquefaction plants overseas, limited transport capacity of liquefied gas and the lack of seaports capable of handling Liquefied Natural Gas (LNG), the price of the natural gas in the United States is dependent on local and continental supply, not…

Page 380 is not part of this book preview

…cost of materials that are produced locally on Mars will be based upon their cost of local production. As we shall see, the most convenient method of measuring this cost is to equate all production factor costs into equivalent energy. The barter economy will relate the valueof materials provided via these two approaches, and it will distinguish the value from individual costs.

Once bi-directional trade is active, evaluating economic worth becomes easier. If the currency used, for instance, is exchangeable in the free market on Mars, money will have an equivalent value on Mars and Earth. Usual classical models can then be utilized with values established in locations of creation, sale or use.


As we have stated, the common unit of currency for defining value will be the Martian QUID. It makes sense for this currency to be based on an energy standard, considering the costs of all materials, regardless of location or origin, can be defined in terms of energy. Energy is our common frame of reference.
I prefer to use the word POWER instead of ENERGY, for reasons that could be explained in great detail. A Kilowatt/hour, for example, is a measure of power, and as I have stated many times that is an almost perfect unit of monetary currency.




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