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 Posted: Mon Feb 4th, 2019 02:36 pm
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Joe Kelley
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Mike Gay wrote:
"However, I have seen no evidence of murder."

You don’t have to, and that is fine. If there was law in America there would be honest people assembled in a Grand Jury. The most honest and discrete among the people of the county in which the murder took place would constitute a lawful, independent, Grand Jury. Those people, having all jurisdiction civil and criminal, would subpoena witnesses, question the accused, and present their findings so as to begin trying the case lawfully. The trial jurors find the facts that matter in the case during a jury trial, which is a trial by the country. That is what would happen if the law was in force in America. That the law is not in force in America is the point.

Helping to cover up a murder is unlawful at base principles.

Again pretending: The Grand Jury in the county assemble... These people constitute an independent group of regular people, meaning that these are not people on the public dole, people not paid to be the so-called government, with uniforms, badges, and licenses to kill indiscriminately, instead these are representatives of the most discrete and honest people in that county, and they assemble to find out if there is probable cause to try a conspiracy murder case. If there is probable cause, then the accused is put on trial.

If you and I were on the Grand Jury, in this case, then it would be our specified duty to find evidence of murder if that evidence exists. Our duty would not be to make sure that we find no evidence, even if it exists. And that lawful work is merely to establish probable cause to try the case, so the evidence is not yet deemed factual, because that judgment of fact is the duty of the trial jury, in a trial by the country, not a trial by the government.

"However, I have seen no evidence of murder."

Pretending again. In this case, suppose I went out and found the interview posted in my last comment, as a Grand Juror, and you did not find that interview, but that interview is placed before you, as we 2 are members of that Grand Jury, where it is our duty to ensure that conspiracy murderers are not running amok in our county murdering innocent people. We don’t try the case, we merely look for, and hopefully find, probable cause to try the case, if there is probable cause to try the case. We don't make sure that we don't find any evidence, because are duty is to find evidence, our duty is not to make sure we never find any evidence.

If I start out with a predetermined verdict before looking at any evidence, then I’m not honest, and therefore I would be a poor example, and I would not represent the people in that county. That applies to everyone else in any position of true law. But on the Grand Jury, as I pretend it could exist, the pretense is that my mind was open until I found that evidence offered in the last comment.

Radio Transmission: "We need to kill Lavoy Finicum."

I then work to convince you, and anyone else on the Grand Jury to put the accused, recorded on that radio transmission (if it exists) on trial. I do that based upon that testimony alone. That is because I’m pretending law exists in America, as I have not actually verified the existence of that radio transmission between officer 1 and officer 2 during the murder. That radio transmission may or may not actually be already one piece of inculpatory evidence available to the public, because we need to know, or to any accuser or defendant, and anyone else lawfully capable of trying that case, in an actual court of law.

If you wish to ignore that evidence as you comment on a public web page, that is fine. If you continue to make claims as if there was no murder, then, in my opinion, you aid and abet the murderers.

“All your other malarkey is nothing but speculation, sir.”

https://oathkeepers.org/2016/02/9870-2/

“Greg and Stewart discuss how this barricade/roadblock was placed after a curve, which did not afford Lavoy ample time to see the barricade and stop his vehicle. Greg also covers exactly why barricading/use of roadblocks is considered deadly force and inherently dangerous and life-threatening, and why most jurisdictions in the United States considers them antiquated, and have gotten away from using them.”

The use of deadly force, the license to kill, is lawful for anyone, anywhere, anytime, when facing imminent danger, who could argue otherwise, other than someone intent upon killing the innocent, after disarming the innocent?

The point here is that there is a process by which the truth is found in this or any case, but that is not happening, instead, malarkey is the point, so at to cover-up the murder, and afford the murderers their license to murder at the expense of their victims.

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 Posted: Sun Feb 10th, 2019 12:26 am
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Joe Kelley
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"There is no safety in a Republic if..."

It (meaning U.S.A. Inc.) is not a Republic, it has not been a republic since 1789. In a Despotic Nation State. In a despotic nation state those best able to lie, cheat, steal, extort, enslave, are best able to "rise" to the "top" of that type of criminal cesspool.

If it were a republic, meaning something of, for, and by the public, then representatives (jurors) could vote to have the liars, cheats, stealers, extortors, and those who enslave: out of power. That process of clearing the swamp would work aggressively, and work on the principle that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

"It is not merely the number of impeachments, that are to be expected to make public officers honest and attentive in their business. A general opinion must pervade the community, that the house, the body to impeach them for misconduct, is disinterested, and ever watchful for the public good; and that the judges who shall try impeachments, will not feel a shadow of biass. Under such circumstances, men will not dare transgress, who, not deterred by such accusers and judges, would repeatedly misbehave. We have already suffered many and extensive evils, owing to the defects of the confederation, in not providing against the misconduct of public officers. When we expect the law to be punctually executed, not one man in ten thousand will disobey it: it is the probable chance of escaping punishment that induces men to transgress. It is one important mean to make the government just and honest, rigidly and constantly to hold, before the eyes of those who execute it, punishment, and dismission from office, for misconduct. These are principles no candid man, who has just ideas of the essential features of a free government, will controvert. They are, to be sure, at this period, called visionary, speculative and anti-governmental—but in the true stile of courtiers, selfish politicians, and flatterers of despotism—discerning republican men of both parties see their value. They are said to be of no value, by empty boasting advocates for the constitution, who, by their weakness and conduct, in fact, injure its cause much more than most of its opponents."

LETTER XIV.
JANUARY 17, 1788.

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 Posted: Sun Feb 10th, 2019 12:37 am
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Joe Kelley
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Mana: 
"...the abyssal ignorance regarding the origins of our republic..."

It is not (U.S.A. Inc.) a republic, and has not been a republic since 1789. The abyssal ignorance is not entirely accountable to nature, those who create and maintain despotic (fake) governments know that they must spend the loot they steal in specific ways so as to destroy natural human morality, and one obvious expenditure is false propaganda injected into children.

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 Posted: Sun Feb 10th, 2019 04:04 pm
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Joe Kelley
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"Show me where in the US Constitution the...."

Why not acknowledge the fact that those who were at the crime scene warned about the consequences of allowing the usurpation from a Federal, voluntary, association, to a National, involuntary one?

George Mason, and many others, can show you where those dangers, and more, are written in the U.S. Constitution of 1787. The document replaced the organic, grass-roots, Articles of Confederation. The document was illegally framed, formed, and illegally enforced. The document creates a national government. The so-called GENERAL government is not federal in any true sense of the word. The National government is a despotic government corporation contract, made despotic by design, and those who wrote it intended to TAKE the authority to do whatever those in control of it wanted to do, and wanted to do with impunity.

"Among the enumerated powers, Congress are to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts, and excises, and to pay the debts, and to provide for the general welfare and common defence; and by that clause (so often called the sweeping clause) they are to make all laws necessary to execute those laws. Now, suppose oppressions should arise under this government, and any writer should dare to stand forth, and expose to the community at large the abuses of those powers; could not Congress, under the idea of providing for the general welfare, and under their own construction, say that this was destroying the general peace, encouraging sedition, and poisoning the minds of the people? And could they not, in order to provide against this, lay a dangerous restriction On the press? Might they not even bring the trial of this restriction within the ten miles square, when there is no prohibition against it? Might they not thus destroy the trial by jury?"
George Mason, June 6, 1788

Fraud and treason can be propagandized to a point where the victims actually call it legalese, or prosecutorial misconduct, or bad behavior, just as the crime of slavery can be propagandized to a point where the victims of it actually believe that it is necessary for their economy. Dupes are dupes for demonstrable reasons, for example, you can't show a dupe that they are one. If you could, then they wouldn't be a dupe anymore.

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 Posted: Sun Feb 10th, 2019 04:34 pm
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Joe Kelley
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"The future holds either unprecedented despotism or civil war."

That can be shown to be cyclic by design. To all those who have suffered from fraudulent government actions, are suffering, or will suffer, such as taxation without representation, or any abuse of government power, anywhere, anytime, that despotism was, is, and will be palpable to them in fact, in time, and in place, each time it is allowed to happen.

"Plaintiff admitted that it, in combination with the Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis, which are for all practical purposes, because of there interlocking activity and practices, and both being Banking Institutions Incorporated under the Laws of the United States, are in the Law to be treated as one and the same Bank, did create the entire 14,000.00 in money or credit upon its own books by bookkeeping entry. That this was the Consideration used to support the Note dated May 8, 1964 and the Mortgage of the same date. The money and credit first came into existence when they created it. Mr. Morgan admitted that no United States Law or Statute existed which gave him the right to do this. A lawful consideration must exist and be tendered to support the Note. See Anheuser-Bush Brewing co. V. Emma Mason, 44 Minn. 318. The Jury found there was no lawful consideration and I agree. Only God can create something of value out of nothing."
STATE OF MINNESOTA
COUNTY OF SCOTT
First National Bank of Montgomery, Plaintiff
vs
Jerome Daly, Defendant.
December 9, 1968

This is not difficult to understand if the one expending the effort can shed the brainwashing. Those who abuse power (criminals) know how to avoid accurate accountability. The thief points at nothing and yells "THEIF," and while those who would naturally oppose the crime are focusing their accountability at nothing: what do you think happens?

The following was published in the Maryland Gazette and Baltimore Advertiser, March 7, 1788.
No. 3 - New Constitution Creates A National Government; Will Not Abate Foreign Influence; Dangers Of Civil War And Despotism
"Whether national government will be productive of internal peace, is too uncertain to admit of decided opinion. I only hazard a conjecture when I say, that our state disputes, in a confederacy, would be disputes of levity and passion, which would subside before injury. The people being free, government having no right to them, but they to government, they would separate and divide as interest or inclination prompted - as they do at this day, and always have done, in Switzerland. In a national government, unless cautiously and fortunately administered, the disputes will be the deep-rooted differences of interest, where part of the empire must be injured by the operation of general law; and then should the sword of government be once drawn (which Heaven avert) I fear it will not be sheathed, until we have waded through that series of desolation, which France, Spain, and the other great kingdoms of the world have suffered, in order to bring so many separate States into uniformity, of government and law; in which event the legislative power can only be entrusted to one man (as it is with them) who can have no local attachments, partial interests, or private views to gratify."

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 Posted: Sun Feb 10th, 2019 07:24 pm
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Joe Kelley
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"A nationalization of our economy"

All this talk as if the stolen power is in any way legitimate, and the battle is to stab the other criminal party in the back before having those in that party stab "our" party in the back. What a load of BS (Fake News).

"For, even if industry and business should remain privately owned, they would be held hostage to draconian regulation, and only operate at the whim of govt agents."

How about an example of being held hostage by so-called "govt agents"?

"But Hamilton wanted to go farther than debt assumption. He believed a funded national debt would assist in establishing public credit. By funding national debt, Hamilton envisioned the Congress setting aside a portion of tax revenues to pay each year's interest without an annual appropriation. Redemption of the principal would be left to the government's discretion. At the time Hamilton gave his Report on Public Credit, the national debt was $80 million. Though such a large figure shocked many Republicans who saw debt as a menace to be avoided, Hamilton perceived debt's benefits. "In countries in which the national debt is properly funded, and the object of established confidence," explained Hamilton, "it assumes most of the purposes of money." Federal stock would be issued in exchange for state and national debt certificates, with interest on the stock running about 4.5 percent. To Republicans the debt proposals were heresy. The farmers and planters of the South, who were predominantly Republican, owed enormous sums to British creditors and thus had firsthand knowledge of the misery wrought by debt. Debt, as Hamilton himself noted, must be paid or credit is ruined. High levels of taxation, Republicans prognosticated, would be necessary just to pay the interest on the perpetual debt. Believing that this tax burden would fall on the yeoman farmers and eventually rise to European levels, Republicans opposed Hamilton's debt program.

"To help pay the interest on the debt, Hamilton convinced the Congress to pass an excise on whiskey. In Federalist N. 12, Hamilton noted that because "[t]he genius of the people will ill brook the inquisitive and peremptory spirit of excise law," such taxes would be little used by the national government. In power, the Secretary of the Treasury soon changed his mind and the tax on the production of whiskey rankled Americans living on the frontier. Cash was scarce in the West and the Frontiersmen used whiskey as an item of barter."
Reclaiming the American Revolution: The Kentucky and Virginia Resolutions and their Legacy
by William Watkins

Criminals create a despotic nation-state, doing so by telling lies and making threats, and then once the criminals are firmly in power they reveal their true colors.

Those who need to make ends meet produce a competitive form of money, they do so because the better money (gold) was driven out by the criminal infusion of counterfeit money (promises to pay that are lies documented on the very paper printed by the criminal frauds), and what does the so-called government do when people rebel against taxation without representation?

The draconian despot on top of the newly created pyramid scheme abuses the despotic office of President of the corporation by conscripting (enslaving) a national army of tax collectors to invade a former independent state and crush that spirit of liberty out of those slaves in that state. Pay or suffer, and pay without question.

That is an example of this:

"For, even if industry and business should remain privately owned, they would be held hostage to draconian regulation, and only operate at the whim of govt agents."

Farmers were run out of business by draconian regulations, including excise taxes payable in gold, and including the subsidization of a criminal labor force, paid for by the farmers whose capacity to compete with slave labor was already compromised by the draconian regulations that refused to defend the slaves, and then the farmers had to pay the draconian slave masters for the costs spent by the draconian Nation-State in enforcing slavery. Dig your own grave, and don't question the order to do so.

"The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned."

Counterfeiting law is not news, it is the norm since 1789.

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 Posted: Sun Feb 10th, 2019 08:25 pm
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Joe Kelley
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How is it that normal people are led to believe that the fund from which all this criminal government power is funded is in any way "taxpayer money"?

If it confesses that it is tyrannical, despotic, and criminal, and if the actual law process lawfully determines that it is, in fact, criminal, then it is not "taxpayer money," it is stolen loot.

Since it is stolen loot, then those who steal it will inevitably, and perhaps invariably, spend the loot stealing more.

"The Lake Pend Oreille School District has become widely known for its insatiable appetite for taxpayer money, no matter the economy, no matter its enrollment figures, or the impact it has on property owners and, indirectly, on renters."

The bla, bla, bla, criminal organization confesses (widely known for those who want to know) its insatiable appetite for stolen loot, and as a matter (no matter?) of fact the stolen loot must be taken either from those who produce anything worth stealing, or stolen from fellow criminals who have themselves stolen the loot from those who produce anything worth stealing.

Since the Nationalists (criminals) took over in 1789, consolidating all the formerly independent state governments into one profitable monopoly, then either this bla, bla, bla, branch of that trunk is allowed to share the loot, or by some miracle that branch is taking over the turf already well patrolled by the profitable monopoly corporate legal fiction criminal gang.

Why would the national criminal gang members afford these petty local criminals the license to steal so much of their property?

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 Posted: Sat Feb 16th, 2019 01:51 am
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Joe Kelley
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"...the moving parties rationale for seeking standing to sue."

Failing to understand the nature of a criminal organization leads to this type of farcical argument. The criminals who took over the lawful government in America admit their criminality.

“... [C]onstitutional standing [is] ... a word game played by secret rules.... Characterized neither by the private rights model of the seven common law forms of action nor by the "injury-in-fact" paradigm of modern standing doctrine, these matters took forms astonishingly similar to the "standingless" public action or "private attorney general" model that modern standing law is designed to thwart.... Adjudicatory models premised on a part-whole schema, like mandamus, are ultimately crowded out of our concept of justiciable controversies.... Procedurally, the models of access for raising claims of public right allowed individuals to command the attention of the law, as in the private rights model.... The Frothingham Court began its analysis with a discussion of nonconstitutional doctrines of equity, proceeded to reason from the constituent model in a way that shows clear prototype effects, then rejected the intermediate status of the public rights model, and finally raised constitutional considerations that helped lead to a modern conception of standing.... For over a hundred years, the metaphor of "standing" was shorthand for the question of whether a plaintiff had asserted claims that a court of equity would enforce....”
The Metaphor of Standing and the Problem of Self-Governance.
Steven L. Winter

When the criminals claim that they fear “democracy,” or “mob rule,” they lie. They fear government by the whole people, and they fear the loss of their power to sway, control, and maneuver the mobs they create with their lies. They fear a shift of power from their hands as that power shifts to the hands of everyone as everyone is on an equal footing when government is enforced by the whole body of people, as it was, and as it is, exemplified in times and places where rule of law takes on a form such as the common law, with independent grand juries, independent trial juries, natural rights, and basic moral principles; such as the golden rule.

“The fact that, in that dark age, so many of the principles of natural equity, as those then embraced in the Common Law, should have been so uniformly recognized and enforced by juries, as to have become established by general consent as “the law of the land;” and the further fact that this “law of the land” was held so sacred that even the king could not lawfully infringe or alter it, but was required to swear to maintain it, are beautiful and impressive illustrations of the truth that men’s minds, even in the comparative infancy of other knowledge, have clear and coincident ideas of the elementary principles, and the paramount obligation, of justice. The same facts also prove that the common mind, and the general, or, perhaps, rather, the universal conscience, as developed in the untrammelled judgments of juries, may be safely relied upon for the preservation of individual rights in civil society; and that there is no necessity or excuse for that deluge of arbitrary legislation, with which the present age is overwhelmed, under the pretext that unless laws be made,the law will not be known; a pretext, by the way, almost universally used for overturning, instead of establishing, the principles of justice.”
Lysander Spooner, Essay on the Trial by Jury, 1852

To enslave people the professors of slavery claim ownership of everything, including land. If they can claim ownership of people, and get away with it, they can claim ownership of land and get away with that too. If you disagree, then they alone decide if you have standing, which is the power to disagree.

The common law, moral, lawful, legal, right, to own land, free of encumbrances, which is an allodial title, in so many words in English, is an ancient concept, along with the right to breath air, eat food, make a living, and defend life, property, and thereby maintain liberty.

Why has it been called the law of the land since ancient times?

“We have hitherto met you in the field of battle, with hostile minds, urged on by the great principle of self-defense; yet in those instances, where the fortune of war hath delivered any of your countrymen into our hands, we appeal to them that our enmity hath ceased the moment they were disarmed; and we have treated them more like citizens than prisoners of war. We now address you as part of the great family of mankind, whose freedom and happiness we most earnestly wish to promote and establish.
Distain, then, to continue the instruments of frantick ambition and lawless power. Fee the dignity and importance of your nature. Rise to the rank of free citizens of free states. Desist from the vain attempt to ravage and depopulate a country you cannot subdue, and accept from our munificence what can never be obtained from our fears. We are willing to receive you with open arms into the bosom of our country. Come, then, and partake of the blessings we tender to you in sincerity of heart.
In the name of these sovereign, free, and independent states we promise and engage to you that great privilege of man, the free and uninterrupted exercise of your religion, complete protection of your persons from injury, the peaceable possessions of the fruits of your honest industry, the absolute property in the soil granted to you to defend, unless you shall otherwise dispose of it, to your children and your children's children for ever.1
Resolved, That it be recommended to the several states, who have vacant lands, to lay off with as much expedition as possible, a sufficient quantity of lands to answer the purposes expressed in the forgoing address; for which lands no charge is to be made against the United States.” Journals of the Continental Congress, 1778

Previous to the take over by the criminal mobs the actual federal government maintained a competition which afforded the whole people many choices as to which Nation-State maintained the highest quality and lowest cost provider of government services. In that lawful form of federating large areas of land, it was possible for people to invest in the best government that money could buy, and those people who choose independent, lawful, co-existence, had many flavors of that chosen life from which to choose the best freedom, in the best liberty, as they independently judge at liberty.

“Since the establishment of our new government, this order of things is but little changed. An individual, wishing to appropriate to himself lands still unappropriated by any other, pays to the public treasurer a sum of money proportioned to the quantity he wants. He carries the treasurer's receipt to the auditors of public accompts, who thereupon debit the treasurer with the sum, and order the register of the land-office to give the party a warrant for his land. With this warrant from the register, he goes to the surveyor of the county where the land lies on which he has cast his eye. The surveyor lays it off for him, gives him its exact description, in the form of a certificate, which certificate he returns to the land-office, where a grant is made out, and is signed by the governor. This vests in him a perfect dominion in his lands, transmissible to whom he pleases by deed or will, or by descent to his heirs if he die intestate.”
Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia, 1787.

Before the crooks took over America it was our known duty, our power, to hold the local and the state government accountable by lawful means, such as the discovery of probable cause to indict crooks in government made by independent grand juries, and trial by the country of the accused in those indicted cases of suspected crooks in government. It was the States duty to hold the federal government accountable, and it was the prerogative of the States to choose to remain a member of the federation and pay for it, or not.

That prerogative held by the States was lost, as was the power of the whole people as one to hold the government to account, that was lost too when the crooks took over. Also lost was the power to move from one despotic slave state to a state that was not despotic, to do so without an army of slaves hunting you down so as to return you to your masters, hunting you down in any part of the Consolidated Nation State that usurped the Federation of Independent States.

It would be interesting, in my opinion, to discuss this topic in detail, something an independent Grand Jury might do, but that is not what has been left to us by our criminal ancestors, and we live in a world run by criminals, and those criminals do not want their victims to know anything of value that might tip the scale in favor of rule of law.

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 Posted: Sat Feb 16th, 2019 02:16 am
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Joe Kelley
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Mana: 
"Does it come down to the “Enabling Acts” ?"

Why is this difficult to see clearly? The people as a whole failed in their lawful duty when they allowed the criminals to take over in 1789, subsidizing African Slavery, and paving the way for rule by corporate legal fiction.

Out was the ancient knowledge that afforded the people as a whole their means to defend themselves with rule of law, which included independent, grass-roots, organic, grand jury investigations, and trial jury determinations of facts concerning any controversy which includes a take-over of the lawful government by "empire building" false federalist "Agencies," and any of those who make the same deal with the devil.

So...why is this hard to understand? Is it ubiquitous blind belief in falsehood without question?
Has almost everyone taken the same deal, the same oath to falsehood? Go ahead and ignore the question, as you are told.

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 Posted: Sat Feb 16th, 2019 05:37 pm
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Joe Kelley
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"My rational mind cannot fall upon any other explanation that satisfies, but we need to assume we still don’t have enough data to make our case quite yet and so in the next part of this series we will need to examine the states admission acts before we move on to the case law."

Knowingly jumping off the cliff into the hell created by organized criminals who operate under the color of law is one thing, being led by deception off the same cliff is another thing, in both cases the victims are captured and consumed at the pleasure of the despotic, tyrannical, criminals.

Journals of Congress
April, 1784
Page 277, 278
"That whensoever any of the said states shall have, of free inhabitants, as many as shall then be in any one the least numerous of the thirteen Original states, such State shall be admitted by its delegates into the Congress of the United States, on an equal footing with the said original states;"
http://unionstatesassembly.info/journals/journals%20of%20the%20continental%20congress%201774-1789%20vol%2026%20jan%201%20-%20may%2010%201784.pdf

Claiming to have been given absolute authority, a routine method of operation for criminals who operate under the color of law, is a claim that can be tried by moral principles, such as those moral principles codified in our common laws that include trial by jury, which is trial by the whole people themselves, known as trial by the country, which is not trial by the government.

Claiming to have been given absolute authority is followed up smartly with another claim, and that other claim is such that the only authority that is authorized to enforce the claim of absolute authority is the government itself, not the people as a whole; themselves. Anyone daring to question that absolute authority of that mob called the government will be punished, and all the costs of punishing those who dare to question that absolute authority of that mob called the government will be made to pay for their own punishment.

“The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned.”

The power to create and maintain slaves is a criminal power, even when people are led to believe otherwise; even when people are led to believe that the criminal mob is "our" government. Debt slavery, indentured servitude, or any form in which some people somehow consume other people, one calorie at a time, or all at once, is accurately measurable as a crime, but only to those who actually care to know the facts that matter in those cases.

"Harrington has shown that power always follows property. This I believe to be as infallible a maxim, in politicks, as, that action and re-action are equal, is in mechanics. Nay I believe we may advance one step farther and affirm that the balance of power in a society, accompanies the balance of property in land. The only possible way then of preserving the balance of power on the side of equal liberty and public virtue, is to make the acquisition of land easy to every member of society: to make a division of the land into small quantities, so that the multitude may be possessed of landed estates. If the multitude is possessed of the balance of real estate, the multitude will have the balance of power, and in that case the multitude will take care of the liberty, virtue, and interest of the multitude in all acts of government."
John Adams to James Sullivan
Philadelphia, May 26, 1776

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